In defense of Casual Divers

[Cacia]

really don't understand what you're trying to say here. Is it that we should all confine ourselves to only discussing vacation dives?

I am guessing that he thinks a lot of us are very self-richeous about diving. I can see that I guess...

 

[fairybasslet]

:shakehead He doesn't need to be baited into a war of words that is tangential to his point (which is well taken, by the way).

Yeah, but what would we do with all the &

 

[MikeFerrara]

When HowieDean said:


Oh, come on. It's pretty clear the reference that Howie was making, that doesn't take a genius, :doctor: or any one who has been on this board for long.

Howie was trying to make a point, not troll for flames. He wanted to be able to say his piece without being flamed :1poke: by certain factions (silly him, as if that were possible). So he "minced words" so that the focus could stay on his point, and not the peripherals.

He did not say that better divers diving better would be a bad thing, he only pointed out that the approach taken by those to whom he referred as Waffen SS is just not appropriate to the casual diver in his (or most) resorts.
Resort diving is not for every one, but it has its place.

:shakehead He doesn't need to be baited into a war of words that is tangential to his point (which is well taken, by the way).

Honduras, huh? Is there do rum and Kool-Aid not mix?

So let me get this straight. He minced words because he was worried about the reaction he would get when he assiciated those who argue for better dive training with nazis?

No wonder. If he were to make it clear who he was talking to, the appropriate thing for those folks to do might be to demand satisfaction...at dawn...choose you insult and all of that.

Talk about nazi...do it the vacation diver way or else! I mean realy how dare anyone try to say that divers should get what the agencies advertise that they are getting? How dare anyone suggest that divers should be given a choice? I mean how f..ing dare anyone suggest that the basics of diving like buoyancy control, trim, gas manegement ect actually be taught? It's beyond the pale, totally NAZI and not PADI at all!

Flame? All this nazi crap isn't flamming right?

I won't mince words. We know who the NAZI is. It's the one who wants every one to be keyholed into that resort diver, need a DM or six to survive and no one should say a word group.

The good news for our nazi identifying friend is that he can go into almost any dive shop in the world and everyone will agree with him. I'm sorry that he's so miffed by the fact that not everyone here agrees that he can't discuss the real issues in the threads where they are being discussed but rather equates disagreeing with him to the attempted slaughter of a race. Certainly if he could make the two sides of that equiation balance, he would win by default. The problem is that the two side are not equal and diagreeing with him does NOT EQUAL NAZI

 

[BiggDawg]

All the deaths reported in puget sound this year were of moderately experienced divers on purely recreational profiles and as far as I can tell from what I know of the accidents it looks like they were all preventable with better skills, procedures and training. None of them had anything to do with pushing the envelope.
emphasis added

That is not a resort diver.

I doubt that any diver that Howie would see would be diving in Puget Sound. Those as described by Howie in Honduras, and those who dive in Puget Sound, are pretty much two different demographics.

I submit that most every dive accident, (quoting lamont) "were all preventable with better skills, procedures and training." To that end, I know that Michael Ange would agree:

"The vast majority of accidents are the direct result of diver error."*​

* Ange, Michael R., DIVER DOWN, International Marine/McGraw-Hill; Camden, Maine: 2006. Page x.

As a cause for accident, diver error is much less likely when there is a divemaster at each end of a guided tour, even if that means the resort divers are just passengers.

It's not for every one, but very little in this (or any other) activity is. Each to his own. But that doesn't make anybody the only one or any way the only right way to do anything.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

I’ve been on this board for a couple of years now and it seems to me everybody’s getting a little carried away.

I work for a Resort in Roatan a couple of months out of the year...

I know this is not congruent with the opinions of most of you on this board but it works for me. ...
That's just my opion I could be wrong

You're not completely wrong, but you are also not completely correct.

I understood your entire post, and will not disect it to find some other meaning to small passages.

Please understand that the majority of people on this board are not getting carried away any more than divers have done throughout the history of diving. Some are more vocal than others, but percentage-wise, it's about the same as it has always been.
---

I introduced my son to SCUBA through a resort dive. I sat in on the orientation and training. I felt confident and secure that, in the 30 minutes it took to have him go through the basics on land and the 30 minutes it took to go through the basics in the water, he knew what to do and not to do for THIS DIVE.

Short story shorter. He has almost 100 dives since his full certification and he will be 16 this month. Many of the first dives we were able to do, were from a cruise ship in exotic ports. He's done some diving that many people will only ever dream of. All due to DMs such as yourself.

Thank you, HowieDean

 

[MikeFerrara]

Has there suddenly been a rash of casual divers getting embolisms? Did I miss that news flash?

Seems to me, a quick survey of the incident reports would demonstrate that it is not the casual resort diver who is getting hurt or killed, but it is those who push the envelope (y'all know who you are... )

Nothing sudden about it. It's been going on for a while now.

 

[The Kraken]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

This thread has become a wee bit heated.

I can understand the passions on both sides of the issue.

But, without posting from the moderator standpoint, I would have to agree with the hypothesis that the ScubaBoard does not constitue an overall representation of the scuba diving universe. Please forgive me for making observations without adequate data, but I would hazard a guess that the membership of the ScubaBoard.com, given the mean diving base, would represent, probably, less than 10% of the diving world.

Keep in mind that it is those who are passionate, as reflected by many posts an opinions, who propogate and motivate ScubaBoard.com.

But God, or whatever powers you do or don't believe in, bless all of ya . . .

the K

 

[King Kong Matt]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

This thread has become a wee bit heated.

I can understand the passions on both sides of the issue.

But, without posting from the moderator standpoint, I would have to agree with the hypothesis that the ScubaBoard does not constitue an overall representation of the scuba diving universe. Please forgive me for making observations without adequate data, but I would hazard a guess that the membership of the ScubaBoard.com, given the mean diving base, would represent, probably, less than 10% of the diving world.

Keep in mind that it is those who are passionate, as reflected by many posts an opinions, who propogate and motivate ScubaBoard.com.

But God, or whatever powers you do or don't believe in, bless all of ya . . .

the K

Believing in something, or that someone else's ideas are incorrect is perfectly fine. I don't have a problem with that.

But I don't think it is too much to ask to request that people not liken other people to Nazis. I think that's pretty offensive...

 

[HowieDean]

I have the up-most respect for the DIR and HOG guys... I am more then pleased that allot of you are expanding the sport and showing that normal people who want to spend the time and effort can safely do TRI-MIX and multi level decon dives.
Please keep it up and feel free to share you knowledge and adventures with us.

That beeing said I run into alot of wanna be's they have the gear - they can talk the talk - but they end up having zero bouncey control and the biggest HOOVERs on the boat.

My point is that I don't post often... When I do post I always try to point out the plus and minus's of the point I'm trying to make.

Then some people jump in and basicly infer that you have to be an idiot to do that and you are surely going to die...........................

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

I have the up-most respect for the DIR and HOG guys... I am more then pleased that allot of you are expanding the sport and showing that normal people who want to spend the time and effort can safely do TRI-MIX and multi level decon dives.
Please keep it up and feel free to share you knowledge and adventures with us.

That beeing said I run into alot of wanna be's they have the gear - they can talk the talk - but they end up having zero bouncey control and the biggest HOOVERs on the boat.

My point is that I don't post often... When I do post I always try to point out the plus and minus's of the point I'm trying to make.

Then some people jump in and basicly infer that you have to be an idiot to do that and you are surely going to die...........................

All I can really say is ... HOW DARE YOU, SIR?

Here I am, casually searching the web for a better Jamaican Jerk Rub than I have now, and you have the gall to post a possibly inflamitory post like this!!!

Where I have to monitor and be subjected to it!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: