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Inadvertently breaching copyright

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Storker, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Rred

    Rred Contributor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: In a safe place
    1,058
    447
    Most of the major nations are signatories to the "Berne Convention", an international agreement about how copyrights shall be handled. The US was actually a notable holdout for many years. India IS a signatory, so an Indian web site would be governed by the Berne Convention, although the site owners might say "Right, who's going to come to Bangalore to file charges against us?"

    Whether the DCMA is or isn't good or valid law, is still under discussion. It represents a rather poor attempt to extend copyright laws IN THE US into the electronic age. And that's problematic, since every time you VIEW a web site, youir computer is actually executing code that creates a literal NEW COPY of the author's work. And there's only a presumption that you have permission to make that copy.

    But there's also a lot of confusion about copyrights. The Chairman is right and wrong to say thie forum has "copyrights" to the things published here. As a *publisher* rather than a creator, they have no copyrights except "compilation copyrights", unless the author has knowingly granted/transferred more. They also are protected, as a publisher, from violations that members may commit. Except, if the forum actively changes anything...they can lose the protected "publisher" status.

    If it wasn't complicated enough, DCMA is still bouncing through the courts, mainly because it was ramrodded through by the music industry and the software industry and it really isn't polished or considered law.
     
  2. Lorenzoid

    Lorenzoid ScubaBoard Supporter Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Atlanta, USA
    10,079
    6,801
    FOIA has nothing to do with that.
     
  3. MaxBottomtime

    MaxBottomtime Divemaster

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Torrance, CA
    9,596
    10,190
    Correct. The FOIA covers government publications, not auto manufacturers' repair manuals.
     
  4. Clark Fletcher

    Clark Fletcher Contributor

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Hickory, NC
    215
    88
    Yes, FOIA applies to government documents. However, most folks believe that FOIA ONLY applies to government documents. That is incorrect. The way that FOIA applies to auto manufacturers' repair manuals is that, the manufacturers under FOIA laws have to make the same information available to the general public that they make available to their service technicians. This allows individuals the option of working on and repairing their own vehicles as opposed to being forced to take it to the dealership for repairs. This was, at one time, only true in the US because of FOIA laws. In countries outside the US, auto manufacturers could (and did) refuse to sell copies of factory service manuals to customers. In the US, a dealership cannot refuse to sell you a copy of the factory service manuals if you request them and are willing to pay what the dealership has to pay the manufacturer for the manuals. And, it is entirely because of FOIA laws. I didn't make that up. Got it from a Service Manager at a dealership. And, it's also how I have two copies of factory service manuals. I went to the dealership and ordered them. And, those same manuals could not be purchased by individuals living in the country where the cars were manufactured because the manufacturer would not allow the dealerships to sell them to customers. So, in this specific case, the extent of the copyright protection for the manufacturer was that individuals could not reproduce the material and turn around and sell it for a profit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  5. Lorenzoid

    Lorenzoid ScubaBoard Supporter Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Atlanta, USA
    10,079
    6,801
    Clark, I believe there may be a law requiring manufacturers to sell service manuals to dealers, but it has nothing to do with FOIA. FOIA applies only to the government. The manufacturer having to accept the dealer's payment of the cost of the manual may be sort of analogous to the government having to accept someone's payment of the cost of a FOIA production, but that's all. I think whoever explained this to you was just making an analogy to help explain it.
     
  6. Clark Fletcher

    Clark Fletcher Contributor

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Hickory, NC
    215
    88
    Perhaps so. If that really is the case, then I owe you folks an apology for those misleading comments. And, thank you for pointing out my error.
     
  7. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board Staff Member

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    61,962
    30,425
    Oh dude, please give us the URL. As long as it's not about Fiats, I probably want to read it. :D
     
  8. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board Staff Member

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    61,962
    30,425
    It's a part of the ToS. Why? Mostly because if case anyone gets their panties in a wad and wants us to delete all of the content they've provided. This would cause huge gaping holes in conversations as well as put an undue burden on us to seek out every post they've made as well as posts they've been quoted in and delete them all. Since, by our ToS everyone posting here has agreed to, we retain copyright to everything a user posts, we can delete or retain their content at our discretion. This is moot if the original author comes forth as their copyright becomes forfeit and we would then remove the contested content from our site.
     
  9. seaseadee

    seaseadee Contributor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Boca Raton, Florida, United States
    264
    150
    Yo Pete, you're going to have to 'splain this to me. How can we both have copyright on the same material?
     
  10. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board Staff Member

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    61,962
    30,425
    It's not hard... when a photographer sells an image, unless he grants exclusive copyright for that image, then both he and the buyer own the rights to that image. In the contract, the photographer can specify the number of times the image can be used, how long and so on. You and I have a contract in the SB ToS. When you post, you grant me copyright to the original content you've published. Sure, we give you 24 hours to edit that post, but then you lose the ability to edit that content. Should you want it edited or deleted, you have to request staff to do that for you. Foregoing any mitigating circumstances, we are not compelled to honor your request. In reality, we honor most requests that do not negatively impact discussions.
     

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