inconsistency in what is advertising

[cornfed]

Why not take my reasoning at face value and leave it at that?

Because we're online hence doing so would be unacceptable.

 

[Boogie711]

Pete - I'm sorry if I upset you. Honestly. I'll apologize to you here out in public.

In the interest of only providing constructive criticism:

- come up with a method of informing users whether something is bought and paid for, versus simple testimony. For example - you use "sticky" messages for board news, but you also use them for advertisements (Frugal Diver, for example.) It would be clearer for everyone if, rather than the term "Sticky" you were to use "Advertisement." Otherwise, a user will mistake it for a message of board importance, and then (apparently, wrongly) accuse Scubaboard of bias. Do you understand the point I'm trying to make?

- If you or a moderator feels a post is an advertisement, rather than yank the post completely, which is what started this debacle, simply move it into the appropriate forum. From what I understand, the appropriate forum is the Scuba Marketplace? So why not simply move it there?

- Scratch the "Trader Rating" system. The highest rating I've seen after two or three months is myself - with a whopping "2". On the other hand, as Detroit Diver can testify, the system is open to abuse, since Cincy Bengal Fan decided to just give DD a negative rating out of spite. Apparently this system is not widely used, is not used as a valid indicator of trader honesty, and is open to dishonesty.

- An overarching suggestion is that if you want to allow commercial advertising, trading opportunities and classifieds that you simply create a subdomain and move all such activity to a seperate forum all together. Heck - host it on Scubaboarddeals.com or whatever. But that way there's no way of confusing people over commercial/non commercial postings - all commercial postings of any description end up on Scubaboarddeals. That makes it cleaner and easier for everyone, allows you to have a dedicated Scuba Marketplace with a for-profit incentive, and you can use the revenue from Scubaboarddeals to subsidize Scubaboard proper.

I remain your humble servant, simply trying to help out.

 

[drbill]

Hmmm... interesting thread. John Moore has spent a lot of time developing non-commercial web-based information that assists divers (and non-divers) in identifying species. I think "making his site known" is a great service to the diving world.

I have a similar website that promotes useful information about diving southern California and a few selected international regions I dive frequently. I "advertise" it frequently because it also does a great service to divers (based on their feedback, not my assessment). My site also is supposed to be partly commercial, promoting the sale of underwater video footage and stills. Wish it was as successful in doing that as it is on its non-commercial side. I employ links to the non-commercial informational content.

By the way, John... the CD of Baja images is on its way to you via US Mail.

Doc

 

[John H. Moore]

By the way, John... the CD of Baja images is on its way to you via US Mail.

Thanks Bill! I'll look forward to more sleepless nights processing pretty fish pics and putting together Field ID webpages so that I can get rich selling them off my website, now that it's properly advertised on ScubaBoard! ;-)

Seriously, mostly I posted the notice which started this whole thing so that Archie Ammons (Archman) would take a look. Seems that he's out, though. And I figured, what the heck, I'd post it where he hangs out instead of just to him privately, on the chance that others here could tell me that my whooseit-fish was really a whatsit-fish. (I think that Archie works in the lab of Mary Wicksten, doesn't he?, and she already ID'd the unknown crabs, but figured he might have fun with it.)

Anyway, thanks. I'll look forward to the pretty pics!

John

 

[MikeFerrara]

In the market place the ONLY thing you can purchase (rather reasonably too) is a sticky! My opinion is never paid for. Once the sticky expires, it drops into the heap with the rest.

But Boogie, you have accused me of being biased against non-profits and for profits. I find that HIGHLY inflammatory and DESIGNED to get my "shorts in a knot". Why not take my reasoning at face value and leave it at that? If you feel that I may have ulterior motives, then a private message would be best... unless of course you are merely trying to stir the pot or have some other agenda.

Here's just what you need.

Are your shorts in a knot...or not?

Check out this site www.unknotyourshorts.com

Special introductory offers now available (for a limited time).

 

[The Chairman]

Hey John,

just think how much exposure you would get if you put it in your sig line like Dr Bill!

 

[John H. Moore]

just think how much exposure you would get if you put it in your sig line like Dr Bill!

Pete,

I generally prefer being more direct: if I'm promoting something I put it up front and not in a signature. Same kind of reason that I have a huge preference for using real names.

And, no, it wouldn't be that much exposure. The ScubaBoard links to the Sea of Cortez Field ID section have accounted for 15 of 264 sessions since I went live with the draft version last week. And more than half of those have been since the discussion about advertising began last night.

I would expect something akin to that since ScubaBoard isn't really targetted at California (Baja or Alta). A similar post on a SoCal bulletin board generated 53 sessions. (Smaller board, but more targetted.)

And none of those sessions have generated any corrections or identifications, which was the point! ;-)

John

 

[redacted]

Here's just what you need.

Are your shorts in a knot...or not?

Check out this site www.unknotyourshorts.com

Special introductory offers now available (for a limited time).

How can we be sure this isn't just another commercial advertisement?

 

[The Chairman]

Well John,

putting a link in your signature may not help YOU as much as it helps the person who reads it, who is thinking of diving there and needs help in fish ID. That way we all win. Who knows, next year inspired by your site, they might be able to identify the Purple finned hoodingy fish that no else got.

Being the owner of the site I could make many, many threads about the sites in my sig line, but I don't. I find that I get the truly interested users to come and check them out. Lots of great feedback, and no one would know about them if I didn't do that.

As for anonymity, I think it's great but it's not for me. I would rather y'all know who I am up front. NetDoc? That's my company name and you can check it out at www.NetDocInc.com. Nothing special there, so I don't promote it much. Of course from there you can check out www.ScubaDucks.com, www.PowderhornBSA.com as well as others. I own and host over 50 sites that can all be considered "public service". Only three make any money so that they can support the rest.

 

[Ted S]

How can we be sure this isn't just another commercial advertisement?

Maybe it is. If you review our policies we have absolutely no problem with people posting their url in response to a relevant question. So if I ask about getting my shorts in a knot and you own a site about this subject you are welcome to post the url as part of your answer. If you don't own a site about it but know of one you are also welcome to post the url as an answer. The idea here is very simple, someone has asked for information and you are providing it to them.

Our problem is not with people posting their urls, if it was we wouldn't allow them in signatures, we wouldn't have the FREE market place and we wouldn't let you post your relevant urls in a response. Our problem is with people starting threads all around the forum to advertise, promote or solicit traffic in any way shape or forum. There was a time when posting "visit my site" or "come here and submit photos" was grounds for an immediate ban because our advertising rules were so strict that no one and I mean no one could post a message that was promotional without consent. Those times are, thankfully, long since gone. We allow users a great deal of flexibility but this is still a forum and not a free for all. It's easy to look at an instance like John's and think to yourself, that’s a great site, why can't he openly promote it. But it's never that simple, you can't say this site is good but hat site isn't good... we've tried doing the whole commercial vs non-commercial thing but sadly websites don't have to be registered with BBB so we don't know who really is commercial or who will be. Still, short of letting people openly start promotional messages we give everyone a great amount of latitude yet it seems that its never enough.

Another issue I have concern with is this whole idea that by having advertisers on the board we must be selling ourselves out or doing bad. Right now, 90% of our advertising is run through a 3rd party system aka Google. At times we do have private ad campaigns and those are certainly preferable but in either case the rules don't change. One of our biggest hurtles with some advertisers in the past (the way past) has been that they wanted more rights and permissions, when we told them no way, not happening they decided not to advertise here and that's fine with us. Our goal has never been to put the money before the user and we never have. Commercial businesses can purchase a banner, post in the market place, buy a sticky post in the market place, put a link in their signature and post a url when it relevantly answers a question but they can't do anything else and they certainly can not do what you can't do. Understand this, our moderators are volunteers from the community just like you are, they wouldn't stand for it, you wouldn't stand for it and we have chosen not to stand for it either -- ScubaBoard does not sell special favors to anyone.

With this said we are all for suggestions. If you can come up with a way to let people start a thread asking people to go to their sites and potential use their services that doesn’t allow for anyone to come and spam the board in every forum then I am all for it. The best we could figure out was to stick them all in the marketplace but hey, we’re open to suggestions.