Individual Rights, and other Myths

[Mike Boswell]

I'm only representing my opinions.

What is the truth?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Oh, Bob, that's easy....Johnny Cash - What Is Truth? - YouTube

 

[NAM001]

this is exactly the problem with regulation. Americans are so used to big brother looking after them that many stop thinking for themselves. if a regulatory says 60 ft is the limit. Then it interpreted that no matter what 60 ft is safe and progresses to 61 ft and you die. \\\\\\a false sence of security is created when a regulator puts out doctrin that because of its source is accepted as 100% good because of the long time practice of overkill in hte name of humanity. Those who know this then ignore the regulation as over-reaction along with eventually a non-overkill rule. And someone gets hurt. Ie why should i care whet the conditions of my car tires are the safe speed limit is 60. Certainly that speed was set to cover all tire wind and road conditions.


by devon diver

At entry-level, many agencies deliberately press the message that diving is safe. It's something instructors are taught to do in their IDCs. The message is "Fun, Fun, Fun". Not much changes until the Rescue Diver course...

 

[PfcAJ]

KWS, captain and was mechanic of te SS Melodrama.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Wow, I go to work for the day and YOU PEOPLE are out of control

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Ok, Don Quixote, what have you been forced to pay besides the personal windmill you seem to be chasing? If you have personally paid for something that everyone else doesn't have to pay I will gladly give you yours and apologize. Higher prices for gear doesn't count cause we pay higher retail for shoplifters, higher insurance for bad drivers....the list goes on.

I never did get a response to this simple question concerning the whole premise of this thread. I do get the ideology of both side while mostly agreeing with one.

I also dive safe, within my training and rules that apply, but I do dive solo, I cave dive solo, and some would say that is unsafe and reckless and so on. I say, for me, it is not. For others it may be. Some people get the whats and the why's while others only get the whats. Sometimes they get lucky for a long time and then that 1 dive to 200 on an aluminum 80................well we know that story and Mike B is right on that one. It cost a lot of people much, at least emotionally and based on what happened that was too much.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Ok, Don Quixote, what have you been forced to pay besides the personal windmill you seem to be chasing? If you have personally paid for something that everyone else doesn't have to pay I will gladly give you yours and apologize. Higher prices for gear doesn't count cause we pay higher retail for shoplifters, higher insurance for bad drivers....the lost goes on.

I never did get a response to this simple question concerning the whole premise of this thread. I do get the ideology of both side while mostly agreeing with one.

I also dive safe, within my training and rules that apply, but I do dive solo, I cave dive solo, and some would say that is unsafe and reckless and so on. I say, for me, it is not. For others it may be. Some people get the whats and the why's while others only get the whats. Sometimes they get lucky for a long time and then that 1 dive to 200 on an aluminum 80................well we know that story and Mike B is right on that one. It cost a lot of people much, at least emotionally and based on what happened that was too much.

It would normally be an honor for me to be compared to Don Quixote, because he was a gallant and fearless knight, who gladly risked his life to protect the lady he loved, and he is rightly a national hero in Spain and an inspiration to me.

And there are many interesting parallels between Don Quixote's adventures and my efforts here on Scubaboard. Both could be characterized as noble in purpose, sincere in execution, delusional in belief in man's virtue, and ultimately futile. And you yourself have demonstrated the utter futility of my efforts.

Be that as it may, I did not claim that I personally pay a cost that no one else pays. And since it is self-evident that we ALL pay for the misdeeds of a small minority, I see no point in belaboring the obvious.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

It would normally be an honor for me to be compared to Don Quixote, because he was a gallant and fearless knight, who gladly risked his life to protect the lady he loved, and he is rightly a national hero in Spain and an inspiration to me.

And there are many interesting parallels between Don Quixote's adventures and my efforts here on Scubaboard. Both could be characterized as noble in purpose, sincere in execution, delusional in belief in man's virtue, and ultimately futile. And you yourself have demonstrated the utter futility of my efforts.

Be that as it may, I did not claim that I personally pay a cost that no one else pays. And since it is self-evident that we ALL pay for the misdeeds of a small minority, I see no point in belaboring the obvious.

And for that reply, you have my respect for what it is worth. Honestly, I can see we probably have some philosophical differences, but we are not really that different. I have spent a life standing up for those that can't, and sometimes just won't. I wore the DonQ hat a few times myself. I took you for a troll and was wrong. I can't agree with a lot of your views but I certainly respect that, at least, you believe in what you have said here. In my part of the world I try and be a good mentor and pass on safety and personal responsibility while also hoping those I am around learn the whys that go with the whats. A bit heated, but this thread has been a good one.

 

[DaleC]

In my view, that is the message we should be conveying to those who are proposing to "set a new personal depth record", or whatever. Telling them they have the "right" to do it is just going to hasten the day when those privileges are taken away.

Sorry but I'm confused; are you talking about Jarrod Jablonski here or is some record setting different than others?



I still get a kick out of those who insist they don't want to pay the health care costs of others. Do any of you think your measly premium payments in any way will off set the cost of your care when you succumb to Alzheimers, Diabetes, COPD, Cancer, Parkinsons, heart failure, stroke etc... and are you doing everything possible to reduce your risk of contracting those dis-eases.

I have a take on how to instill responsibility in individuals: I believe it is done by offering opportunities for individuals to take responsibility. I think one reduces that ability by taking away those opportunities. The problem today is not that people are naturally more irresponsible - it is that the opportunity to act responsibly is constantly taken away in an attempt to protect the irresponsible from themselves.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Sorry but I'm confused; are you talking about Jarrod Jablonski here or is some record setting different than others?

I still get a kick out of those who insist they don't want to pay the health care costs of others. Do any of you think your measly premium payments in any way will off set the cost of your care when you succumb to Alzheimers, Diabetes, COPD, Cancer, Parkinsons, heart failure, stroke etc... and are you doing everything possible to reduce your risk of contracting those dis-eases.

I have a take on how to instill responsibility in individuals: I believe it is done by offering opportunities for individuals to take responsibility. I think one reduces that ability by taking away those opportunities. The problem today is not that people are naturally more irresponsible - it is that the opportunity to act responsibly is constantly taken away in an attempt to protect the irresponsible from themselves.

No, I am not talking about Jarrod Jablonski. GUE works hard to mitigate known risks and to provide for unknown risks.

Yes, some "record setting" is different than others. The book "On the Origin of Species" goes into this in more detail.

No, I don't mind paying into an insurance plan which spreads risk and cost over a large number of reasonably responsible people. I DO mind being forced to pay much higher health premiums to cover the unneccessary costs of willfully irresponsible people.

No, I don't think my payments will pay for the cost of my care if I get a very expensive disease. It's a big problem in the US.

No, I am not doing "everything possible" but I am doing most things (Don't smoke, eat healthy, drink little, exercise) and should do more (lose weight, eat less meat/salt/fat).

I agree with most of your second paragraph, especially if you are referring to government leaders and Wall Street bankers.

 

[Mike Boswell]

this is exactly the problem with regulation. Americans are so used to big brother looking after them that many stop thinking for themselves. if a regulatory says 60 ft is the limit. Then it interpreted that no matter what 60 ft is safe and progresses to 61 ft and you die. \\\\\\a false sence of security is created when a regulator puts out doctrin that because of its source is accepted as 100% good because of the long time practice of overkill in hte name of humanity. Those who know this then ignore the regulation as over-reaction along with eventually a non-overkill rule. And someone gets hurt. Ie why should i care whet the conditions of my car tires are the safe speed limit is 60. Certainly that speed was set to cover all tire wind and road conditions.


by devon diver

At entry-level, many agencies deliberately press the message that diving is safe. It's something instructors are taught to do in their IDCs. The message is "Fun, Fun, Fun". Not much changes until the Rescue Diver course...

Well, the 60-foot limit is not a government regulation, it is a PADI guideline for new OW divers, it makes a lot of sense, and nobody says "you die".

Second, nobody likes government regulations much, but ...

When folks get sick and die after eating listeria-tainted cantaloupe, everybody says "Where were the government inspectors?"

When Wall Street banks destroy the world economy, everybody says "Where were the government regulators?"