Instructor not sending in for C-cards!?

[cdiver2]

Several months ago my friend and I took some courses at our LDS. At the completion of the course, the instructor indicated that we had successfully completed the course and had us fill out info for C-cards and told us that he was sending off for them and that we should get them in a couple of weeks. No problem, sounds just like what happened with my OW card.

A couple months after completing the course my friend and I started to wonder where our cards were. I inquired with my dive instructor and he said that PADI must have lost the paper work. Maybe. But I don't think that it is likely that PADI would have lost 2 drysuit cards, an AOW card, and TDI lost the paper work for two Nitrox cards all at the same time. He said that he would resend the paper work. Wait a couple more weeks, still no cards. I gave the instructor two more photos of my self with a list of all the C-cards he owed my friend and me. He said he would do it right away. I asked again 3 weeks ago and he said, "Yes, yes, I processed those."
It has been about 7 weeks since he "sent off" the last time.

I just contacted PADI and they had no paper work for my Drysuit or AOW. They have no paperwork for my friends Drysuit.

TDI has no paperwork for either of our Nitrox cards.

My instructor has mistaken my easy going attitude and patience for being a push over. Now I'm going to have to
tell him to send in for my C-cards again and I'm not going to be nice about it. Do any of the instructors out there know what my recourses with PADI and TDI are for this situation?

Lastly, for those of you that read this board and know who I am and who the instructor is: This is between me and him. I suggest that you mind your own business and not talk to anybody about this.

Talking to a guy on a English board that had posted about not getting his cert for a cavern course in Fl five months past.
He had e-mailed 20 times and sent five letters, no replies.
I called the instructor for him and got I will have to look in my files, 24 hours later I called the cavern divers society they had no records of the student. 24 later I called the instructor again and was told "I will have to look into my records". Two hours later I called again and again I was told I will have to look into my records, I asked how long will this take you and was told two hours he would call me back> I called back four hours later and was told he had made a mistake and would sent the stuff of right away and I should let the gentleman in England know. I told him no you tell him you said you never got his e-mails (spam blocker) so if you e-mail him he can reply with no fear of being blocked. He got his cert three weeks later.

 

[ZenSquirrel]

Best bet would be to fill out a Quality Assurance Report (attached) and send it directly to PADI Headquarters.

Thanks! This is a good suggestion.

 

[Viscya]

I've had instructors give me the PIC cards to fill in and mail. They fill in their part and hand me the PIC card. Now you know it was sent in.

One other ocation, I had to wait 6 months for the card. No, PADI did not have it. I reminded the instructor several times over the 6 month period to send in the card. No, I have not taken any other classes with that shop.

 

[rjchandler]

Lastly, for those of you that read this board and know who I am and who the instructor is: This is between me and him. I suggest that you mind your own business and not talk to anybody about this.

So what aren't you telling us?

 

[ZenSquirrel]

So what aren't you telling us?

I'm not not telling anything. I would just prefer that I get to talk to the instructor before anybody calls him to say, "so-and-so is going to call PADI on you!" I want the opportunity to go to my instrutor and explain to him that because it has been months and I think that it is unlikely that two different companies would lose all this paperwork TWICE that I think the paper work was not sent in.

I want to go tell my instructor this and have him say, "Yes this sucks, lets make this straight right now." I want him to fill out my forms online or on paper and give them to me to mail in.

I DON'T want to go into that store and have him already defensive and thinking that I'm trying to get him in trouble with his certifying agencies (i.e. screwing with his lively hood).

I've already asked nicely several times. If he is not willing to make things straight right there and then, then I'll have to explain that I think he is still jerking me around and that I have no choice but to contact his agencies. This is the LAST thing I want to do.

 

[FreeFloat]

I'm not not telling anything. I would just prefer that I get to talk to the instructor before anybody calls him to say, "so-and-so is going to call PADI on you!" I want the opportunity to go to my instrutor and explain to him that because it has been months and I think that it is unlikely that two different companies would lose all this paperwork TWICE that I think the paper work was not sent in.

I want to go tell my instructor this and have him say, "Yes this sucks, lets make this straight right now." I want him to fill out my forms online or on paper and give them to me to mail in.

I DON'T want to go into that store and have him already defensive and thinking that I'm trying to get him in trouble with his certifying agencies (i.e. screwing with his lively hood).

I've already asked nicely several times. If he is not willing to make things straight right there and then, then I'll have to explain that I think he is still jerking me around and that I have no choice but to contact his agencies. This is the LAST thing I want to do.

That's very noble of you. A lot of lesser people would have said Screw it and gone straight to the top.

 

[Cudabait]

Hey, ZenSquireel......

Why don't you just send the Turkey a registered letter, with a copy to PADI, that it is you intention to take them both to small claims court there in Travis County if he or she has not satisfied your demand within 10 days. Mention deceptive trade practices. I would bet you'll get your cards ASAP with a response. You like self flagilation??

Regards,

 

[jerrynuss]

I have not seen this mentioned so I'll throw it out there.

Is the instructor in teaching status and good standing with the agencies? The instructor is required to pay membership dues and the instructor certification expires around December 31. If the instructor has not paid dues and is in active status then the instructor cannot teach a course or issue certifications.

I have seen this happen a lot of times. I have had people come to me and complain about their instructor and they never got their certification. I sent off a quick e-mail to the agency training department and asked about the instructors status. Normally the instructor was not in trouble but just didn't pay their dues.

Instructors are also required to have liability insurance on file with the certification agency if the agency requires it. This is different in some places internationally. All the agencies I am affiliated with (NAUI, SDI, TDI, IANTD) require me to have current liability insurance or be self insured. If the instructor does not have current insurance coverage, then the instructor is not authorized to teach the course or issue certifications. I have seen this happen a few times too. I've had friends that were instructors ask me for a 'Big favor" This normally happens in July or August. They want me to send in for the c-cards.

The instructor may have violated standards and had their teaching and membership status suspended or revoked. This is the big one that no one ever wants to see.

There are instructors that are fantastic in the water and teach wonderfully but they are morons when it comes to paperwork and running a dive business.

In this case and for anyone else wanting to take a certification course, contact the agency and verify the instructor's credentials. Is the instructor in active status? Is the instructor authorized to teach the course being offered? Are there any complains on file?

I always give my students a copy of the course standards right out of the Standards and Procedures manual before I ever start the class. I also show them a current instructor certification card and insurance card. I also encourage them to send an e-mail to the certification agency and check me out. That way they should be confident I am at least authorized and qualified to teach their course. I know NAUI, SDI, and TDI will get back with the prospective student very quickly. I am not familiar with PADI operations but I bet they would also be on top of this since they have an interest to protect.

The agency can be contacted without giving out personal information. Just ask if the instructor is in good standing and is authorized to teach a certain course.

Now, the instructor is not obligated to issue a certification if the student fails to meet up to standards or the instructor doesn't feel the student is safe. I don't believe this is the case in this situation since several courses were completed. So for a last resort the diver may need to sue the instrutor in small claims court. This might be the case if a person took a course and the person was not authorized to teach such as not being an instructor for that agency or not authorized to teach a course. This would also be a case where the agency may want to get involved.

As a learning experience go to the NAUI home page www.nauionline.org and they have a list of people claiming to be instructor or past instructor that had their membership revoked. A person would be amazed at how many names are on the list.

Jerry Nuss

 

[jerrynuss]

I screwed up the link it is www.naui.org

 

[DiverRick69]

Had a similar experience a few years ago. My buddy and I had done deep diver and boat diver courses with an instructor we liked quite well from our experience diving from his boat. When we finished the courses, he indicated that he was "low" on PIC's and had an OW class finishing that week. He wanted to know if we needed our cards right away, or could we wait a week or so for more cards to come. My buddy was going on a trip to NC to dive, and wanted at least the temp. card for deep to take with him. I agreed to wait.
After a couple of months, I called to find out about my cards, (my buddy had his deep, but not his boat.) I was promised they were in the works. Several more months passed. Another call, same answer. Meantime my buddy had also been contacting the instructor, with similar results. We both finally contacted PADI, sent letters of explanation, with copies of receipts,etc. PADI quality assurance said they were checking. Months go by. Call PADI again, they can't get response from instructor. It eventually turned out that he hadn't sent his $25 or whatever to PADI to get his Boat DIver instructor's rating, so he couldn't send our cards in.
It was over a year before we finally got all our cards. Needless to say, we don't do business with him anymore.
Moral of the story, keep after both the instructor and PADI, or nothing will happen.