Instructors should take some advanced training as well. Yea or Nay? Does it matter?

[TMHeimer]

Personally, this isn't a problem but I fail to see why it should matter? I care a whole lot more that my instructor has a grasp of physiology, physics and chemistry than whether they can complete a triathlon. I agree that divers in general should be in decent shape to handle the stress of the activity, but it's not a real burner of an aerobic sport...

Agree. Gets into my old "swimming vs. diving" pet peeve. As long as an instructor can swim reasonably well with a decent stroke it's OK with me. Also brings up the "sport" vs. activity" thing. Swimming is a (competitive?) sport while IMHO diving is an activity for which you should be in good physical shape. 7 mins. for the 400 is REALLY fast. I did it in about 12 and scored a 3--after a fair bit of training--PADI & our shop seems OK with that, but that's yet another discussion.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You also have to look at the practical aspects of swimming skills for scuba vs that for winning a race. For example why are you swimming without fins and mask as a scuba instructor besides the tests. One thing I can think of is to assist a diver in distress who is away from the shore or boat. In that case what kind of stroke are you using to haul ass out there that fast. Quite likely a racing style stroke right? Which means you are ducking your head in the water. Thereby taking your eyes off the victim. Giving them numerous chances to slip under without you noticing they have done so. And what condition they were in when you did. Not only that but so what if you did not puke. Do you have the energy reserves to tow a diver geared up back to the shore or boat unaided? Then get them out of the water?

I talk to the lifeguards at the pool where I teach for the YMCA. Taking your eyes off of the victim is a big no-no! Losing sight of where they went under is bad juju. I know some guys who just out of sheer size could not swim 400 yds that fast. But they can swim at a steady pace all day long. I'd rather have them coming after me than some sprinter.

That's why there are different scores for different times that you can still pass an instructor exam with. because they use some common sense. Although that may be questionable because they don't require you to keep eyes up and focused. I'd rather have my OW students do the three hundred yards that way than a freestyle stroke where their head is under the water. Doing it that way is more of a demonstration of the skills needed for scuba. But as long as standards say it's ok for any stroke that's ok. I don't want divers and instructors racing. I want them to realize their limits and use the best technique that gets the job done.It's more practical and makes more sense.

Some people don't have the resources to stay in that kind of swimming shape but they are damn good divers and instructors. I have free pool access five days a week for swimming most times and weekends if I want to take it. But I also have a life and other responsibilities. And at 54 there are some things that I just can't do as fast or as long as I could when I was 20 or even 30. And meet all the other things life with a job and a business requires. So you make adjustments to do the best you can.

 

[phoenix31tt]

Haven't read the whole thread... but for a relatively new diver I agree that an instructor should at least have the desire to take more training.. even though sometimes it's not feasible...

i've met quite a few instructors since i started diving, and the two I'm most comfortable with.. both of them encourage further training (and not because they get the business), and both of them take advanced training when possible...

I also believe being a student helps make one a better teacher for various reasons

 

[TMHeimer]

Jim, I agree with everything you say. I do have to ask though-- What situation would an instructor be in where he didn't have mask, fins and snorkel close by? I recall this is like rule #2 or 3 of PADI Rescue. Sorry, I know I've beaten this subject to death over the years. Also, if you were strolling on the beach on a day off and saw a solo diver 2-400 yards out in trouble would you swim out to him and be able to perform rescue kills (subdue panic, etc.) and tow him back--or would you dial 911?

Some don't have the resources to stay in great swimming shape--practicality is more important--the Age thing (being 60 in 3 days). Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The example I gave was one of those once in a million times things. To illustrate that being practical and using common sense wins out over Mark Spitz skills. For you young'uns Michael Phelps (when he isn't stoned)

 

[ElGaucho]

I consider first I am a diver. And I have interests beyond teaching. Also, every interest I pursue in diving, makes me a better instructor at any level, for sure. On one hand, you have more knowledge, more experience, more varied experience also. We should not forget also that becoming a student, makes me put myself in that humble, vulnerable place were a student usually is; you want to achieve something and you find out sometimes it's just hard. As an instructor, being reminded of that place, makes you a better teacher. Because you need that empathic connection with your students. Otherwise, you are just an ass, if you cannot relate closely to the feelings they go through.

Besides being an Open Water Instructor, I followed up (as my interest as a diver)

- Full Cave diver
- Trimix Diver
- ANDP Instructor
- CCR MOD1 diver, and soon getting my MOD2 class going (trimix on my JJ CCR)
- Drysuit diver

Anyhow, it all builds up.

 

[DCBC]

I think that all divers continue to learn by diving. Instructors are no exception. Formal courses are just one way of learning and sometimes many of us feel that the only real way is through a formal training program. I don't agree that this is the case.

My Cave Instructor was Dr. George Benjamin. George had been Cave Diving for years and CD and photography were his passions in life. He acted as the guide for Cousteau and the crew of Calypso to the Blue Holes of Andros in the early 70's. No one in the expedition was a certified Cave Diver. They had learned by having others more knowledgeable act as a Mentor in the same way as George did for me.

Should an Instructor continue his diving education? Sure. S/he should continue to dive and be a student of the craft; expanding their experience as much as possible. Recreational diving is however all about having fun. If that's in 30 FSW in ideal clear and warm conditions that's OK. If an Instructor doesn't want to learn more, that's OK too. It's the Agency's call to re-certify or not.

All divers have a tremendous opportunity to learn more about the underwater world. Some may choose this path; while others will not. Make the most of the opportunities as you see fit...

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but classes don't always have to be diving-related to enhance your ability to dive or teach better.

Since we teach in a classrooms much the same as public school teachers and teach land and in-water skills like a coach it also doesn't hurt to gain information by taking college education classes or attending courses or seminars that improve one's understanding of how to better educate students and coach athletes.

Getting involved in other watersports also adds to your knowledge and water skills. For example, surfing allows you to get to know the surf zone intimately. Boating makes you more knowledgeable about charts, knots, and seamanship. Experience on a boat lets you better control your group while aboard.

Taking a lifeguard course better prepares you for surface and snorkeling rescue. Joining the USCG Auxiliary gives you access to many courses in seamanship and leadership. Sports such as masters swimming or triathlons will keep you in shape.

Since many students have lots of questions about cultural and natural resources, geology, hydrology, history, and the plants and animals which inhabit dive sites, you can look in your entertainment guides or museum websites for lectures, informative nature walks, and other opportunities to learn more about the places you teach.

 

[Doppler]

I work at becoming a student at least once a year... often in a dive-related program but sometimes something else.I cannot imagine being a professional instructor without getting a pretty regular reminder what it's like to be a student.

 

[Steve_C]

If you are in life guard mode you never take your eyes off the person in trouble. That's why you enter the water by bringing your arms together so that even though you jump in your head does not go under water and you are still focused on the person in trouble. Same with swimming out.

There are several other parts of life guarding that carry over to in water rescues like the victim does not want to go down and if there are at the surface, they are not drowning yet. Safety is paramount.

They were long ago but I found my WSI training helpful with rescue.