Internet gear question

[serambin]

I'm just starting back diving and while looking at gear in a local shop, the clerk said that equipment purchased off the web would not carry the manufacturers Warranty. Whereas I try to support the local dive shops, on some items their prices are brutal. What's the deal?

 

[Blackwood]

It depends on both the manufacturer and the site.

 

[DiveMaven]

Check out ScubaToys.com.......full manufacturer's warantee on many brands and great prices from an internet/LDS.

 

[seafox69]

You will have to send all defective equipment back to internet supplier that sold it to you. Local shops will not warranty it and some manufacturers will not warranty once they find out that you bought it on the internet.

Take internet price to local store and give them a chance to match it. Better for both worlds as then you just have to take it to local dive shop for service, as long as they are able to service it, or to send it to manufacturer. Internet stores do not supply air fills and if your local dive shop goes out of business then where are you going to go for air fills for local dives? All that money you supposedly saved on the internet goes to gas as you now have to drive miles out of your way.

 

[bp_968]

You will have to send all defective equipment back to internet supplier that sold it to you. Local shops will not warranty it and some manufacturers will not warranty once they find out that you bought it on the internet.

Take internet price to local store and give them a chance to match it. Better for both worlds as then you just have to take it to local dive shop for service, as long as they are able to service it, or to send it to manufacturer. Internet stores do not supply air fills and if your local dive shop goes out of business then where are you going to go for air fills for local dives? All that money you supposedly saved on the internet goes to gas as you now have to drive miles out of your way.

I tried that. Most of the local shops here seemed shocked that I had the nerve to even call around locally and price shop. Some things are pretty close in price (regulators thankfully are one). BCs on the otherhand seem to be 30%-50% higher or more. The sad thing is if you even mention internet they go into "the speech". You have to pay shipping if you buy online. Shipping on 800$ worth of stuff=20-30$, tax on 1040$=72.80$ (thats the 30% higher LDS prices) so no savings there. Then you get the warranty speech. Well scubatoys stuff is all warrantied and a good example are fins. 190$ locally, 130$ at scubatoys (his price on the site). So I pay 406.60$ after tax for two sets locally(me and the wife). Online I pay 275$ shipped. That leaves me with 131.60$ in savings. So if I order it online I can *lose* a set and buy a replacement and be at the same price as the LDS. Think they will help me if I come in with 1 fin saying I lost the other one? lol. Seems like in that case online is a pretty good "warranty".

I'm sorry, I love to support the local scene but if someone can't come up with a working business model that allows them to compete then thats not really my problem. Obviously brick and mortar stores and the internet are not mutally exclusive, scubatoys proves that.

The other problem is the manufacturers. The LDS said internet sales are "screwing them" (quote). I disagree, I think it is the manufacturers that are screwing them. Not allowing online sales or price locking your products through dealer agreements (I know scubapro does this) only screws the dealer. Unless they can find a way to stop shops like LP from selling the stuff anyway at WAY less then the LDS then policies like this only hurt the authorized dealers.

The bottom line is I really really want to support my LDS, so I am buying my personal gear packages locally at a 30% increase over what it costs online. Thats costing me around 100$ over the costs online. But I simply can't afford to do that for gear for me and the wife. At 30% higher (almost 50% for alot of BCs) and if you include a 7% tax in there it ends up bringing a 1000$ online purchase up to almost 1400$ locally. Thats 2800$ for us both (locally) and 2000$ online, 800$ lower.

Heck maybe I have a new business model right here. Offer a "gear inspection and setup" service. You buy your stuff online if you want and the LDS will inspect it for defects and help you set it up and show you how to use it for a reasonable and profitable hourly fee.

My wife and I run a Photography business. She handles the day to day and I have a day job (Network Engineer). As a network engineer I am often asked by friends in the small business community to offer consulting to them for computer and networking issues. My rate varies from 80-250$ dollars an hour. My hourly rate for weddings runs around 200$ an hour. As a new diver would I pay a LDS shop 100-200$ an hour to inspect my equipment for problems and give me a quick show on how to use the equipment (since its likely to be different then the stuff you rent or trained in)?? Heck ya! Figure an hour or two for a service like that, maximum. Thats *still* 400-600$ cheaper if you buy it online.

I could swallow a 10% premium, maybe even 20% (200-400$) but not a 30-50% premium.

Any suggestions for talking the LDS into getting closer to that 10-20% mark? I think most of us would much rather buy at, and have a LDS then buy online.

Ben

 

[seafox69]

if the dive shop is stupid enough not to try to come close to the internet price than their loss. Small shops do have a higher cost per item as they do not buy in volume but a sale is a sale and the more volume you do the better your pricing.

Some internet dive retailers get local shops going out of business to buy them gear from a manufacturer that the internet store does not carry. NO WARRANTY. SOL!

A warranty is important for Life Support equipment(regs, BC's, gauges). Fins, masks, stuff like that, you will probably drop the mask or lose a fin before a warranty runs out.

Scubapro, Dacor, and Seaquest all have fixed pricing policy.

You can either go to a car dealership with low prices that sells thousands of cars a month with lousy customer service or go to the Mom and Pop place and pay more for the car but get great service later on. Well everyone needs a car. Unluckily it is not the same market for dive gear as it is only a small part of the population that needs it. Dive retailers need to adapt to the changing market.

Remember that most dive shops are owned by hobbyists, not business people. Their hobby is their business and maybe they nedd to be led to water and forced to drink. The smart ones will survive and adapt.

 

[mike_s]

I know lots of people here love Scuba Toys, but I've found that DiveSports.com is slightly lower in prices on many items. Check out http://www.divesports.com
I've always gotten great customer service from them.

Example
Henderson 3mm Hyperstretch
Scubatoys $265
Dive Sports $265, but includes free shipping, free wetsuit hanger, and free cleaner set.

Tilos 3/2mm full wetsuit.
Scubatoys $89
Dive Sport $79



Of course Scuba Toys has very competive prices on many things though and I'm sure that both places have loyal followings, but both are a good place to check in case the other is out of stock or if you just need a good price comparison.

 

[The Kraken]

Serambin,

There is one thing I'd like for you to consider . . . if the product you buy is of good quality, why then is the warranty a matter of concern?

Keep in mind that for the most part, anything you buy will always outlast the 1 year limited warranty with which it comes.

Some people have a lifetime agenda of the "manufacturer's warranty" issue, but I find it generally of no issue.

Just my 2 cents worth.

the K

 

[bp_968]

How about regulators? Are they hard to repair or diagnose? I really like the reviews of the Zeagle's but some people recommended the scubapro because of access to authorized dealers the world over. Could you not get a parts kit and handle it yourself? I'm pretty handy with high pressure pneumatic equipment, though no direct experience with scuba (or life support equipment). Or is that generally considered a bad idea?

Ben

Serambin,

There is one thing I'd like for you to consider . . . if the product you buy is of good quality, why then is the warranty a matter of concern?

Keep in mind that for the most part, anything you buy will always outlast the 1 year limited warranty with which it comes.

Some people have a lifetime agenda of the "manufacturer's warranty" issue, but I find it generally of no issue.

Just my 2 cents worth.

the K

 

[The Kraken]

Repairing regulators without proper training is generally considered a rather foolish thing to do. Some people are more knowledgeable about certain things than others, such as pneumatics, valves, etc. I prefer to refrain from making observations upon another's ability to perform service upon such things as regulators.

The commonality of one manufacturer's product throughout a geographical area is one thing that should be considered when purchasing equipment. But keep in mind that if you maintain your gear as you should, the occurrence of a major defect in a piece of equipment is relatively rare.

Zeagle is becoming a much more widely distributed piece of equipment and is establishing itself as a very widely recognized manufacturer.

I know nothing of the availability of securing repair, maintenance kits. I suppose you could put that question to Scott Zeagle here on the ScubaBoard, he's a member.

I hope I don't incur the wrath of other members of the board, but I regularly disassemble my regulators and check them out. I've a few years experience in things like that myself, and it's not rocket science, wink wink nod nod.

Into your own hands do you commend your spirit . . .

the K