Is dive certification really necessary?

[AfterDark]

I decided to answer my own question and read through the first 50 fatality reports in the A&I forum. In a few cases, the experience level of the diver and the reason for the deaths are unknown, but in those 50 cases there was not a single clear case of a newer (or even more experienced) diver dying because of a basic skill problem. Most were medical cases, some were attributed to unusual difficult conditions, and several were advanced divers doing challenging dives.

The one possible case of a training problem is very appropriate for this thread. In that case, the fatality was a young and very fit woman who was not certified and was being taught to dive by family members who were not instructors.

I would expect if every thread was looked there probably won't be one calling out training as a cause of death or issues. You are absolutely correct. Same with the near miss site. I'm sure one can find posts from other divers saying it but I can't imagine actually seeing it posted as a "official" cause.

Coverup is one of the ingredients corruption.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I decided to answer my own question and read through the first 50 fatality reports in the A&I forum. In a few cases, the experience level of the diver and the reason for the deaths are unknown, but in those 50 cases there was not a single clear case of a newer (or even more experienced) diver dying because of a basic skill problem. Most were medical cases, some were attributed to unusual difficult conditions, and several were advanced divers doing challenging dives.

The one possible case of a training problem is very appropriate for this thread. In that case, the fatality was a young and very fit woman who was not certified and was being taught to dive by family members who were not instructors.

In my area, there's a school that has had a couple training deaths in the past 5 years or so (same instructor in both cases, still teaching). In the more recent case where an instructor from another shop was at the same site, the deceased didn't ascend to the surface with the rest of the group. The body was later found by a well known diver in the area who searched for her.

I know that students in this school are firmly overweighted to be on the bottom. I will go so far as to speculate (if this is against the rules for this forum, admins, please delete - I will report myself when I finish) that this was a contributing factor. I don't know if this falls under basic skill problem. The deceased was a young diver (23). This shop teaches resort style (Friday night pool, Sat/Sun open water dives). I don't think everyone agrees with me, but I do feel that overweighting in open water is a big problem.

The previous summer I spoke to an attorney that DAN consults. He told me at the time that there were 3 cases in litigation that never made the media. I failed to ask if DAN would use those three cases in their yearly report for 2019.

 

[Esprise Me]

I regularly read the column Lessons for Life (Lessons For Life.) It's not a representative cross-section of dive incidents and accidents, because these stories are selected based on what would make a good column (i.e. they're not going to run 5 heart attack stories in a row even if that best depicts what's happening.) But at the same time, there's more likely to be some resolution or take-away from those stories that are chosen. Going by those columns, at least, it would seem that a lot of people get hurt going beyond their training, but few people get hurt in benign OW conditions due to inadequate training in their OW course.

 

[2airishuman]

I decided to answer my own question and read through the first 50 fatality reports in the A&I forum. In a few cases, the experience level of the diver and the reason for the deaths are unknown, but in those 50 cases there was not a single clear case of a newer (or even more experienced) diver dying because of a basic skill problem. Most were medical cases, some were attributed to unusual difficult conditions, and several were advanced divers doing challenging dives.

It is difficult (and a topic of various other perennial threads) to interpret the statistics and accident reports.

Because there is no mandatory reporting, DAN undercounts fatalities. No one knows by how much.

Because medical history is protected by privacy laws and thorough testing of the gasses used is the exception rather than the rule, the actual number of fatalities that are purely due to a medical condition unrelated to diving is difficult to discern.

Because the boundaries for dive practices considered acceptable have evolved over time it is difficult to attribute fatalities to unusually risking diving.

I have read through the DAN reports in the past. From recollection I believe that there are around 5-10 fatalities a year that could be characterized as beginning divers experiencing a cascade of problems resulting from poor buoyancy control. I have seen some studies that report that the first 10 dives post-certification are significantly more risky. I believe these are both indicators that diving could be made safer through better training. I believe they fall short of a mandate for intervention. In contrast, for recreational boating, inexperience is known to be a significant risk factor for the 700 fatalities a year yet only a tiny percentage of those new to the activity receive any kind of formalized, hands-on instruction.

 

[2airishuman]

I regularly read the column Lessons for Life (Lessons For Life.) It's not a representative cross-section of dive incidents and accidents, because these stories are selected based on what would make a good column (i.e. they're not going to run 5 heart attack stories in a row even if that best depicts what's happening.) But at the same time, there's more likely to be some resolution or take-away from those stories that are chosen. Going by those columns, at least, it would seem that a lot of people get hurt going beyond their training, but few people get hurt in benign OW conditions due to inadequate training in their OW course.

Those accounts are cherry picked and fictionalized to reinforce the PADI orthodoxy. You'll find out that solo diving is terribly dangerous, for example.

 

[boulderjohn]

I would expect if every thread was looked there probably won't be one calling out training as a cause of death or issues. You are absolutely correct. Same with the near miss site. I'm sure one can find posts from other divers saying it but I can't imagine actually seeing it posted as a "official" cause.

Coverup is one of the ingredients corruption.

Who is doing the cover up? We are reading newspaper reports there. In the DAN studies, we are reading the DAN analyses. Who is covering anything up?

 

[AfterDark]

WHo is doing the cover up? We are reading newspaper reports there. In the DAN studies, we are reading the DAN analyses. Who is covering anything up?

I don't know they are covered up.

 

[boulderjohn]

Those accounts are cherry picked and fictionalized to reinforce the PADI orthodoxy. You'll find out that solo diving is terribly dangerous, for example.

In some cases, the fictionalization is downright absurd.

 

[BRT]

I think the direction this thread has taken, and some posters' assertions that the instructional system is broken or compromised, is at odds with the ground truth that recreational diving is a relatively safe activity.

Because of training or in spite of?

 

[boulderjohn]

Because of training or in spite of?

If you start with an unproven and unprovable assumption that the overwhelming majority of instruction around the world today truly sucks, then you will say firmly that this record of safety is in spite of the terrible instruction, and no one will be able to dissuade you. If it is also your unproven and unprovable assumption that all instruction was wonderful a half century ago, then you will say firmly that the much, much higher fatality rates during that era were in spite of that superior instruction, and no one will be able to dissuade you.

I cited this History of NAUI earlier, written in part by Al Tillman, chief founder of NAUI and previously the director of the Los Angeles County instructional program. In this reflection of the decades of instruction since NAUI's founding, the authors offer the observation that the average student completing an OW course at the time of the writing was at the time of graduation a better diver than the instructors who founded NAUI. Of course, if you start with the assumption that all current instruction sucks, then you will dismiss that observation as well, because nothing will dissuade you.