Is it or is it not a trust me dive?

[cdiver2]

After reading the thread Dangerous dive or unprepared divers it raised another question for me at least.
If we travel to a unknown destination and do a charter boat dive with a DM that gives a dive briefing is this not a trust me dive. If you come to visit me and I take you diving at on one of my dive sites is this not a trust me dive if you dont know the waters?.

 

[Dive-aholic]

To me, a trust me dive is diving beyond your level of training and relying on your buddy to keep you safe. ie taking a non-wreck trained diver into a wreck or a non-tech diver to 165 fsw and telling that diver you will handle the calculations, contingencies, etc.

The only time this is okay (recreationally) is if the DM is actually an instructor and is conducting a guided tour. Tech instructors can also do this, but usually only 1:1. These are trust me dives in a sense, but you're supposed to be able to trust your instructor. If you don't, then you need a different instructor.

 

[OneBrightGator]

For me the line is if you didn't have your buddy, DM or Instructor with you could you complete the dive? If Yes, then it's not. If No, then it is. Showing a new diver the highlights of a new site doesn't mean he couldn't dive without you.

 

[simbrooks]

I agree with Ben, thats a fairly plain line you can draw without much grey area.

To me, a trust me dive is diving beyond your level of training and relying on your buddy to keep you safe. ie taking a non-wreck trained diver into a wreck or a non-tech diver to 165 fsw and telling that diver you will handle the calculations, contingencies, etc.

The only time this is okay (recreationally) is if the DM is actually an instructor and is conducting a guided tour. Tech instructors can also do this, but usually only 1:1. These are trust me dives in a sense, but you're supposed to be able to trust your instructor. If you don't, then you need a different instructor.

I agree with your examples, except that when being instructed you should work up to the new skill/experience - expanding slowly, not big leaps, you shouldnt have to trust your instructor to be able to do the dive during a course. They should help slowly increase your skill/comfort/experience, but shouldnt be relied upon for anything more than instruction and to be a buddy (or in some cases a casual observer if there are a couple of students diving together). Not saying i dont trust my instructor(s), but when we plan we do it together, or rather the stage is set and i work it out, but he already knows the answers We work through scenarios, work up to the new dives and make sure i am capable before moving along.

I do similarly with others who i am diving with, new locations, new buddies, etc. Going back to David's example of a DM briefing: recently we had a dive briefing for a shallow wreck dive, we were told it was in less than 70ft of water, so that is what we planned for. However i hit 70 quite a bit above the deck, so we changed the plan UW to run to 80ft and explored the wreck, even then were 10ft above the sand. So sometimes the dive briefing can be "off", you have to know what you are doing and what is going on around you.

 

[Diver0001]

If you come to visit me and I take you diving at on one of my dive sites is this not a trust me dive if you dont know the waters?.

You're looking for a clear line between "orientation" and "training".

I guess you could say thta if the diver in question were unable to make the dive unsupervised then you're really engaged in training and not orientation. To me the line isn't as black and white as it is to Ben but there is a point where you're sure you're on one side or the other....

I'll throw a wrench in the discussion. Making trust-me dives is taboo but it seems to me that the first time you do anything new you're in the grey area and therefore making dives in the grey area is necessary for any kind of meaningful progression. There are some dives that really require instruction and supervision but many dives in the grey zone don´t.

R..

 

[Uncle Pug]

More gray area:
I invite friends who are competent divers to dive Deception Pass with me. It is a dive that requires local knowledge of the current windows, the entry and exit point, timing and modifying factors such as boat traffic and weather conditions both current and forecast.

Is this a trust me dive?

 

[Diver0001]

More gray area:
I invite friends who are competent divers to dive Deception Pass with me. It is a dive that requires local knowledge of the current windows, the entry and exit point, timing and modifying factors such as boat traffic and weather conditions both current and forecast.

Is this a trust me dive?

Could you just explain it in words and then slap them on the back and say have fun?

R..

 

[Uncle Pug]

Yes... but I wouldn't do that.

 

[Diver0001]

Then it's probably in the grey zone I was talking about.

 

[cdiver2]

Yes... but I wouldn't do that.

would I. Call it what you want in a situation like UP said I as a diver not knowing the are am doing a trust me dive. I am relying on HIS knowledge of the area and conditions below. I think a lot of problems in the vacationing diver comes from a communication problems, when a DM say's theres a light current, some current, a bit of a current or a fairly strong current whats the diffrence... I don't know.