Is it or is it not a trust me dive?

[Dive-aholic]

II agree with your examples, except that when being instructed you should work up to the new skill/experience - expanding slowly, not big leaps, you shouldnt have to trust your instructor to be able to do the dive during a course. They should help slowly increase your skill/comfort/experience, but shouldnt be relied upon for anything more than instruction and to be a buddy (or in some cases a casual observer if there are a couple of students diving together). Not saying i dont trust my instructor(s), but when we plan we do it together, or rather the stage is set and i work it out, but he already knows the answers We work through scenarios, work up to the new dives and make sure i am capable before moving along.

Well said, but that's part of trusting your instructor. Your instructor should be familiar enough with your level of training and experience not to put you in a situation you're not ready for. How will you know if you're ready for it or not if you've never done it?

As of UP's example, could your buddies get out of a situation by themselves if the situation arose, or would they need to rely on you to get them out of it? If you have to "hold their hands" throughout the dive (which I doubt you would take them on it if that were the case), then it's a trust me dive. If something goes wrong and they can "rescue" themselves, then they're competent enough to do the dive and they're just relying on your knowledge of the area to make it safer.

If s*** hits the fan and you need the assistance of your buddy to get your out of it because you don't know how to, then it's a trust me dive as I've always thought of it. If you have enough training and experience to KNOW how to get out of it, you may still need assistance (help with disentanglement, etc), but you're competent enough to be there.

 

[Snowbear]

What if UP had given you erroneous information IE yes you can dive there, there is a bit current but its not bad, then you got swept away by a current I think you would have something to say to UP.

That's where the trust comes in - I trusted Pug not to give me maliciously erroneous information.

If s*** hits the fan and you need the assistance of your buddy to get your out of it because you don't know how to, then it's a trust me dive as I've always thought of it. If you have enough training and experience to KNOW how to get out of it, you may still need assistance (help with disentanglement, etc), but you're competent enough to be there.

In that case, most every dive with a buddy is a trust me dive. If I'm diving with a buddy I do not trust to help me out of a pickle, I make every effort to keep the dive as non pickle producing as possible.

 

[SeanQ]

would I. Call it what you want in a situation like UP said I as a diver not knowing the are am doing a trust me dive. I am relying on HIS knowledge of the area and conditions below. I think a lot of problems in the vacationing diver comes from a communication problems, when a DM say's theres a light current, some current, a bit of a current or a fairly strong current whats the diffrence... I don't know.

In some areas a "light current" may be 2 knots, which would be considered a strong current in many other areas. The instructors local knowledge is major factor in "trust me" dives. Would you trust an OW instructor who has only experienced warm water with high vis to teach you in a cold, low vis enviroment? What about the other way around?

 

[Uncle Pug]

I trusted Pug not to give me maliciously erroneous information.

Maliciously being the key word.

We will see in March if we gained additional (and critical) local knowledge last April.

 

[Snowbear]

Maliciously being the key word.

We will see in March if we gained additional (and critical) local knowledge last April.

I'll still be trusting you for your local knowledge

 

[Dive-aholic]

In that case, most every dive with a buddy is a trust me dive. If I'm diving with a buddy I do not trust to help me out of a pickle, I make every effort to keep the dive as non pickle producing as possible.

I seriously doubt that. My view of a trust me dive is one in which you allow your buddy to plan the dive, the contingencies, etc because you're not knowledgeable enough about that type of dive to do all that. You're relying on your buddy to make it a safe dive. I guess the best example would be a recreational diver doing a deco dive with a tech diver and trusting the tech diver not to get him bent. The recreational diver doesn't know how to calculate sac, rmv, deco stops, etc and trusts that the tech diver does and will be able to conduct the dive safely. I know divers that have gone to 180fsw with no technical training whatsoever with tech divers in the carib that they just met (these were resort dives). And these weren't 1:1. What does this tech diver do if one of his trustees gets narced and decides to bolt (one of them almost did bolt)? I wouldn't want to be wearing his fins.

 

[The Chairman]

Hey Pug... so will I!

I wonder why they call it "DECEPTION PASS"???

 

[Uncle Pug]

so that means you are coming then!

 

[simbrooks]

so that means you are coming then!

I am sure even a gammy hand couldnt keep him away.

One day when i'm all experienced i might even like to hit such a place.

 

[Uncle Pug]

We have gone from reckless abandon in DP to cautious planning.

We use to ride the whirlpools in our drysuits at max current flow whooping and hollering like the idiots we were until we were sucked below the event horizon... only to pop back up with even louder whooping and hollering. Folks watching from the bridge 180' above enjoyed the spectacle and we never did hear any sirens.

Now we do our best to carefully plan the dive and time things so that we enter with less than 2 knots flood, catch the turn and exit at less than 2 knots ebb. That is the plan. We've had one hour run times... and we've also been burned a couple of times when the timing was off.

So... this isn't a trust me dive. If folks are going with me I explain it as best I can and the option is theirs... as is the responsibility.