Is it too early for me to get a rebreather??

[lamont]

Have a look at the fatalities that occured on CCRs. Plenty of people diving past their CC limits, diving solo, deeper and/or longer than they should have been as a CC newbie.

There's also a lot of "user error" fatalities caused as a result of mistakes in using the machine. Very often you see the "user error" rationale used by other CCR divers in defense of the unit after a fatality. To me, that says that they're more complicated than OC and that one should get OC experience before going CCR.

The plane and car analogy is also pretty bogus. Most of the skills that I learned in my first 100 dives were all transferable like relaxing while breathing underwater, learning to clip and unclip stuff, learning to have better situational awareness underwater, etc. You may have been diving long enough that you've forgotten what the first 100 dives were like. I think back on my first 20 dives (which were actually a whole lot better for me than most of what I see from post-BOW divers) and adding a CCR seems like a recipe for disaster.

IMO, 0-50 dives to CCR is a bad idea, 100-150 dives is agressive, and with over 500 dives you're an adult and can make your own decisions... Maybe you took to the water like a fish on your first dives, but I'll bet you looked like every other post-BOW diver out there and you've just forgotten it...

But you're free to do whatever you want to. I'm eating my wheaties...

 

[BikerManiac]

Thanks for all the information!!!.

After reading and considering your post. I have decided I would do the rebreather's course based on the fact that I want to use it for 1) longer bottom time 2)bouyancy 3)little/no bubbles 4)pictures/movies.

I will postpone buying the RB until I do more research in the model,make,etc. The reason I find the Ray so appealing is because of it's size. What other small RBs do you know? I dont want to carry a tank when I go diving.

Thanks.

 

[caveseeker7]

Maybe you took to the water like a fish on your first dives, but I'll bet you looked like every other post-BOW diver out there and you've just forgotten it...

Actually, on my first dive I took to it like a stone. The instructor misjudged my height/weight and I went face first into the mud of the pond (no pool). But yeah, I was lucky feeling very compfortable in and under water, and with diving being a childhood dream as long as I can remember I took to it quite well.

You know, people used to dive rebreathers long before open circuit.
No doubt a lot of what you learn OC will apply to RB diving, both knowledge and skill.
It's up to the individual to decide which route to go, I choose to dive RB on a rec level before starting any serious technical specialties like trimix or cave. The way I see it it saves a lot of money not going through several classes twice. Time is less of an issue for me, if OC trimix requires 100 dives, and CC trimix requires 100 dives, I rather do 200 on a CCR and go straight to CCR trimix if the CCR is what I'll dive anyway. :shrug:

It works for some people, doesn't work for others. Diver's choice.

You got a point regarding "user error", but don't think for a second that some of those errors are RB exclusive or couldn't kill an OC diver. Also, there is a broad range when it comes to simplicity of RB designs, some are much, much simpler than others. Also vast differences is alarms, recoverability, emergency modes etc. Hence the type ratings.

 

[Mr.X]

Was your watermanship sufficient at 60 dives to don a CCR?

I am aware of the ideas floating around of doing beginning training on rebreathers. My instructor teaches KISS, Meg, and Ourbourus. This is why I am going to jump in the pool with one this spring. That said, I don't think my awareness will be good enough even after DIRF. Maybe after I pass Tech1 and Adv. Nitrox I'll feel differently about trying a SCR unit. But I doubt it. A set of doubles and a stage and deco bottle will take me FAR into the kind of diving I want to be doing.

Everyone is different though.

The last part of your statement sums it up succinctly. The largest factor in learning how to use a RB is diver variability, centered around attitude. What's interesting is that you seem staunchly invested in your present perspective. Relax. I don't really need to know your instructor's certs. I'm sure he/she can give you sound advice.
The pool session is a great place to try these rigs in a non-stress environment.

As per 60 dives ago - there were no non-military RB's available at that time. However, I was competent enough to be the youngest diver in a university reseach diving using NOAA I & II which were considered rarified stuff. Again, # of dives is not a measure of capacity, or ability.

 

[Dr. Doug Ebersole]

Bikermaniac:

The Drager dolphin is relatively small. I've travelled with mine quite a bit. The problem is finding cylinders with the Drager valve when you get to your destination. Another option would be flying with a Drager valve and putting it onto a, say 50 cu ft. cylinder, when you get to your destination.

If you decide to go the CCR route, the Sport Kiss is very small and easy to travel with. Mine fits perfectly into a Strom case, complete with two 14 cu ft cylinders.

Both of these units will have no more than about 13 cu ft of bailout gas (13 cu ft pony bottle for bailout and BC inflation on the Dolphin and your diluent on the Sport Kiss) so, based on your planned diving depths, you'll probably need a true bailout bottle of some sort.

 

[silent running]

Thanks for all the information!!!.

After reading and considering your post. I have decided I would do the rebreather's course based on the fact that I want to use it for 1) longer bottom time 2)bouyancy 3)little/no bubbles 4)pictures/movies.

I will postpone buying the RB until I do more research in the model,make,etc. The reason I find the Ray so appealing is because of it's size. What other small RBs do you know? I dont want to carry a tank when I go diving.

Thanks.

Hello BM, I got into CCR for many of the same reasons you listed above. I'm very glad I did as it has improved my interactions with wildlife a lot and given me a lot of flexability in terms of dive planning. And I agree with Joe and Stefan-it may well be easier to get the very different CCR skill set down if you have not spent a lot of time on OC. I say as soon as you're confident in the water and motivated, go for it. Just be prepared for a significant amount of work to get certified. I actually enjoyed getting certified on the Prism quite a bit.
As for small units, most of the newest makes are not too bad in the size/weight category. The Sport Kiss, Prism, Evolution and Megalodon are all pretty easy to travel with. I'm able to put my Prism minus the cover and cylinders in a small duffel that is within the carry-on dimensions. This is probably true of the Sport Kiss as well, I'm not sure about the others. But make sure you take your time choosing one and understand all the differences between them and what all you want to do with it.
As for diving with a tank, I'm assuming you mean a bailout tank. Some CCR divers won't dive without them no matter what. Many courses will require you to use one. I only take one when I am doing a dive which exceeds 100 ft. or if there is any possibility of getting into deco. The suitability of a particular CCR to diving without bailout is dependant on it's design and the size of it's diluent cylinders and of course your dive plan. You would need to have plenty of gas in your dil cylinder to get to the surface at reasonable rate of ascent and of course a 2nd stage attached to the dil 1st stage. You will also then need to top off the dil in between dives. There is disagreement about when to carry bailout. In the end it is a personal choice. Your traning will emphasize self sufficiency, which is another big difference from OC. CCR diving requires the diver to take on a lot of personal responsibility so you should get comfortable with this idea. Good luck-Andy

 

[jtu]

I am currently taking my Inspiration rebreather course with Jeff Bozanic and have bought my unit with Vision electronics (should take delivery in mid Jan hehe). I had similar concerns about diving rebreathers to soon but after speaking with Jeff he explained that some open circut is good but just because you have 100's of dives doesn't make you a better candidate for a rebreather. Rebreather diving is different than open circut and you have to be retrained anyway. It is like starting over from scratch in your open water class. Many skills and habits you have developed in scuba can be dangerous if applied to rebreather diving. I would recomend finding the best rebreather instructor in your area and pound him with questions BEFORE you run out and buy any thing. Just my opinion

 

[rigdiver]

Why?

Does RB require some special pre-requsite double setup diving? I understand RB diver should get through nitrox, adv. nitorx, trimix and deco with/before RB course though.

Advanced Nitrox is the prerequisite for rebreathers. One can take techtrox and trimix on a RB(see Tom Mount's website.) You must understand partial pressures thoroughly. # of dives is an open debate. If one is comfortable when finished with Adv EANx then go for it. And build your RB experience slowly.
Two very worthwhile cliche's: COMPLACENCY KILLS and KNOW YOUR PPO2
Bill NAUI 5709L C.D./IANTD 1982 YBOD Pilot

 

[CaptainNemo]

Was your watermanship sufficient at 60 dives to don a CCR?

I am aware of the ideas floating around of doing beginning training on rebreathers. My instructor teaches KISS, Meg, and Ourbourus. This is why I am going to jump in the pool with one this spring. That said, I don't think my awareness will be good enough even after DIRF. Maybe after I pass Tech1 and Adv. Nitrox I'll feel differently about trying a SCR unit. But I doubt it. A set of doubles and a stage and deco bottle will take me FAR into the kind of diving I want to be doing.

Everyone is different though.

All this knowledge and your profile says you have no logged dives and are not certified. I find that hard to believe. You probably should update your profile. Undisclosed gender is interesting to say the least, lol!

 

[webediving]

If you are going to buya a Drager Dolphin or Ray I believe you will be OK. The Drager is one of the most simple SCR rebreather in the market and with the correct training I see no problem with learning how to use it. Now if you are going to get into an Azimut SCR, Kiss, Inspiration,etc, then I highly recomend a bit more experience since these machines are very complex. Remember that rebreathers are excellent when they are functioning correct. The problem is when they fail. You need to master whatever equiment you are using. This will come with training and experience.
Happy Diving
Tony Cerezo