Is more better?

[*dave*]

Lot's of buzz in the latest threads on the state of instruction and it caused me to consider the root cause.

More now than ever, I believe the priority has shifted from producing independent, capable divers to producing as many as is possible.

Besides the agencies, gear retailers and manufacturers, who else benefits from all these new divers? More specifically, do certified divers benefit in any way?

I'm kinda foggy on remembering prices from when I was certified, but I know a pair of XL jets sold for $50 then. Has gear gotten any cheaper?

I recall a 2 day San Clemente trip went for.... $175 in 1979. I know there are a lot more destination resorts, but have charters really gotten cheaper?

Gear was evolving at a rapid pace in the late 70's. There were some very sweet breathing regs out, even then. Scubapro's Pilot would give any modern second stage a run in terms of WOB. Evolution was taking place without the masses, have the mass sales really improved our gear?

Are more divers good for diving?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Some pretty good deals on eBay right now!!!

 

[Codyjp]

Along with quantity you have shops that aren't putting much effort, if any into retention of those students.

It seems people have such miserable times in their classes and they come out feeling so unprepared they are less likely to continue with the sport.

I don't get it.

 

[vladimir]

Lot's of buzz in the latest threads on the state of instruction and it caused me to consider the root cause.

More now than ever, I believe the priority has shifted from producing independent, capable divers to producing as many as is possible.

Besides the agencies, gear retailers and manufacturers, who else benefits from all these new divers? More specifically, do certified divers benefit in any way?

I'm kinda foggy on remembering prices from when I was certified, but I know a pair of XL jets sold for $50 then. Has gear gotten any cheaper?

I recall a 2 day San Clemente trip went for.... $175 in 1979. I know there are a lot more destination resorts, but have charters really gotten cheaper?

Gear was evolving at a rapid pace in the late 70's. There were some very sweet breathing regs out, even then. Scubapro's Pilot would give any modern second stage a run in terms of WOB. Evolution was taking place without the masses, have the mass sales really improved our gear?

The fewer divers the better, as far as I'm concerned. My gear in 1975 was more than adequate to the task. I'd happily trade the improvement since then for a quieter dive spot.

If you require a four-star hotel near an exotic tropical reef to go diving, then the extra divers have probably made that hotel economically feasible. The hotel has probably doomed the reef eventually too, so there's that. I was happy with the wooden huts on the beach at Sipadan, but the demand eventually outstripped the supply, even though it was a real trek to get there, and it eventually ruined a diving paradise--about the time they started the helicopter service, I think.

Are more divers good for diving?

The sport of diving, or the diving business?

 

[MaxBottomtime]

When I was first certified you could go to Catalina for $59 and San Clemente/Santa Barbara for $69. One of my buddies told me it was $40 less when he was certified in 1971. The local boats have priced me out. I haven't paid for a dive trip since 2001 when the trip to the oil rigs on the Great Escape was $69.
Regulators seem much better now, and dive lights are far beyond what they were, but BCs haven't changed much and there are a lot of gimmicky fins out there. I began diving with a backpack, bottom timer and capilliary depth guage. I bought a couple of BCs over the years, but have been diving a backplate and wing for the last ten yeaand won't go back to a BC. My bottom timer and depth guage are still hanging on my peg board in my garage. Some day I'll leave my computer home and get them in the water again.

 

[*dave*]

The sport of diving, or the diving business?

The sport.

 

[rstofer]

Diving is a business. it is not a hobby or a sport for those involved in the commercial end of it. They want to sell gear. They can't sell gear unless they can crank out new divers. Old time divers just don't buy much. Odds and ends, mostly. The big sale is to the new diver.

It doesn't make a bit of difference whether new divers stay with the hobby or not. If all stayed, there wouldn't be a place to park.

Turning out divers keeps the manufacturers going. If there are fewer new divers, there will be less affordable gear and it isn't all that affordable right now. We need new divers to buy equipment. We do not need them to actually go diving.

The only thing the fatalities statistics prove is that divers should be out of the sport by the time they turn 40.

All of these threads are meaningless. The agencies are adequately serving the market as they perceive it. What we think is totally irrelevant. There are no safety statistics that prove otherwise.

The training isn't what it was and it never will be again. Let's move on...

Richard

 

[*dave*]

Hey, I'm just asking.... Is more better?

Diving is a business. it is not a hobby or a sport for those involved in the commercial end of it. They want to sell gear. They can't sell gear unless they can crank out new divers. Old time divers just don't buy much. Odds and ends, mostly. The big sale is to the new diver.

It doesn't make a bit of difference whether new divers stay with the hobby or not. If all stayed, there wouldn't be a place to park.

Turning out divers keeps the manufacturers going. If there are fewer new divers, there will be less affordable gear and it isn't all that affordable right now. We need new divers to buy equipment. We do not need them to actually go diving.

The only thing the fatalities statistics prove is that divers should be out of the sport by the time they turn 40.

All of these threads are meaningless. The agencies are adequately serving the market as they perceive it. What we think is totally irrelevant. There are no safety statistics that prove otherwise.

The training isn't what it was and it never will be again. Let's move on...

Richard

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Diving is not a sport or a hobby AFAIC. If someone who is not able to carry their briefcase up a couple flights of stairs is able to be an AOW Diver, it's hardly even a recreation.

 

[vladimir]

Diving is not a sport or a hobby AFAIC. If someone who is not able to carry their briefcase up a couple flights of stairs is able to be an AOW Diver, it's hardly even a recreation.

I'm with you in spirit. I played competitive sports through college and scuba diving bears little resemblance. The dictionary, however, has a much broader view of what sport is:

1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2. a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors.
3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
4. jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously.
5. mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him.
6. an object of derision; laughingstock.

It might not qualify for definition 1, depending on how you define "skill" and "prowess," but if bowling makes the cut, you'd have to consider putting scuba diving on the list too. It certainly qualifies for definition 3, though, and when you get those people who can't carry a briefcase up a flight of stairs, it probably qualifies for definitions 5 and 6, too.