Is more better?

[HowardE]

Besides the agencies, gear retailers and manufacturers, who else benefits from all these new divers? More specifically, do certified divers benefit in any way?

Obviously, the dive operators who run charters, and the other dive travel professionals. They can make a living of sorts off of divers. Destinations as well see the benefit of marketing their locale to divers, like Bonaire, Cozumel, or Turks and Caicos - to name a few.

I'm kinda foggy on remembering prices from when I was certified, but I know a pair of XL jets sold for $50 then. Has gear gotten any cheaper?

Would you expect gear prices to be cheaper than 20 years ago? Inflation, and other economic factors caused the prices of almost everything to go up in the last few years alone.

I recall a 2 day San Clemente trip went for.... $175 in 1979. I know there are a lot more destination resorts, but have charters really gotten cheaper?

In 1979, what was the price for a gallon of Gasoline, or Diesel Fuel? What is it today?

Gear was evolving at a rapid pace in the late 70's. There were some very sweet breathing regs out, even then. Scubapro's Pilot would give any modern second stage a run in terms of WOB. Evolution was taking place without the masses, have the mass sales really improved our gear?

Are more divers good for diving?

There are certainly a lot more manufacturers making scuba gear than there were in the 70's. I certainly wasn't diving then, but I know what kind of stuff was available then, and now. If the number of divers didn't grow, and diving was a very very small market, who in their right mind (other than fanatics) would go into the business of making gear? Without a growing marketplace, how could these businesses survive? More divers adds more dollars into the marketplace, and gives manufacturers more capital to re-invest into their R&D departments to make newer and better gear? Yes?

 

[TSandM]

To some extent, though, the major gear manufacturers aren't dependent on anybody going DIVING -- they're just dependent on people taking classes and buying equipment. If that equipment is never underwater, it doesn't matter to them.

Manufacturers like DSS, on the other hand, are dependent on active divers. People making dive lights and SMBs and probably drysuits are dependent on active divers. People selling tanks and gas and running boats and resorts are dependent on active divers.

But masks, snorkels, fins and basic BCs are only dependent on marching people through classes.

 

[Diver0001]

Lot's of buzz in the latest threads on the state of instruction and it caused me to consider the root cause.

More now than ever, I believe the priority has shifted from producing independent, capable divers to producing as many as is possible.

Absolutely. I don't see a problem with eliminating barriers to entry..... In fact I welcome it. However... I do see, because of that, a need to differentiate between "divers" and "independent divers". Lowering entry level barriers automatically means that you need to learn more if you don't intend to just follow a DM around....

Besides the agencies, gear retailers and manufacturers, who else benefits from all these new divers? More specifically, do certified divers benefit in any way?

Of course. We all do. the industry has a certain total budget. The FACT that we have high quality, extremely well engineerd and reliable gear is a direct result of the R&D budgets manufacturers can afford. If, for example, Aqualung, had 100k per year to put into engineering then we would have the same regulators now that people were using in 1972. We *all* benefit from a healthy dive industry.

I'm kinda foggy on remembering prices from when I was certified, but I know a pair of XL jets sold for $50 then. Has gear gotten any cheaper?

Who cares. the question isn't absolute cost. the question is affordability. Is DIVING more/less/equally afforable than 30 years ago? It's a sport that you can't get into if you don't have ANY money but compared to a lot of other sports, entry level isn't too bad.

I recall a 2 day San Clemente trip went for.... $175 in 1979. I know there are a lot more destination resorts, but have charters really gotten cheaper?

Yeah. IN 1984 I got certed for $99. What's your point? IN 1984 a computer cost $4000. These days it costs $400.

There is no point to this.

R..

 

[vladimir]

Yeah. IN 1984 I got certed for $99. What's your point? IN 1984 a computer cost $4000. These days it costs $400.

There is no point to this.

R..

Wow, it cost me $150 in 1975, and we had double-digit inflation back then. You are right, though, it's a pointless discussion.

 

[HowardE]

To some extent, though, the major gear manufacturers aren't dependent on anybody going DIVING -- they're just dependent on people taking classes and buying equipment. If that equipment is never underwater, it doesn't matter to them.

Manufacturers like DSS, on the other hand, are dependent on active divers. People making dive lights and SMBs and probably drysuits are dependent on active divers. People selling tanks and gas and running boats and resorts are dependent on active divers.

But masks, snorkels, fins and basic BCs are only dependent on marching people through classes.

That seems like a pretty broad generalization? I'm sure plenty of people buy drysuits, backplates, dive lights, and more that rarely get them wet. The dive industry is just that; an industry. If it wasn't for the people marching through classes in the first place, who would buy the gear that more serious divers use? Where would more serious divers come from?

 

[*dave*]

I'm just wondering if more divers is good for diving.

How many more active divers today as opposed to 1978? I really don't know... a million...more? I'd have to guess it has at least doubled.

Affordable trips of any type were available 30 years ago. There were less of them, but they were far more prime than today's mainstream pitstops. Has dive travel really gotten better for divers? I don't know.

As I recall, gear was as attainable then as it is now. I managed to kit myself at 17, so it couldn't have been all that bad. I believe we would arrive at the same point we are today with the same number of active divers we had in the 80's, so I don't see gear as an advantage of a greater number of divers.

If you consider the evolution of gear between 1960 thru 1980, when diving was still mostly considered an extreme sport for the few, and the improvements made since 1980, you'll see the greatest change came in the prior to 1980. Gear functionality has remained relatively static for the last 30 years. Marketing and fluff have proliferated.

I'm still not convinced more is better.

There is no point to this.

R..

If you repeatedly find yourself engaging in pointless exchanges, it might be productive to consider your motives.

 

[HowardE]

I'm just wondering if more divers is good for diving.

How many more active divers today as opposed to 1978? I really don't know... a million...more? I'd have to guess it has at least doubled.

Best guess for certified divers that I've heard from a top industry insider:

3 Million in the U.S.

3 Million more worldwide.

Again... Just a best guess from someone I consider one of the most knowledgeable on the topic. FWIW

 

[*dave*]

Thanks, Howard.

Something that looked interesting at first glance:
How Many Divers Are There? - Undercurrent, May 2007

I'll have to read it when I get back from the pool.

 

[scubafanatic]

Best guess for certified divers that I've heard from a top industry insider:

3 Million in the U.S.

3 Million more worldwide.

Again... Just a best guess from someone I consider one of the most knowledgeable on the topic. FWIW

...soo, are you saying that American divers actually represent...... 50 % ( HALF ! ) of all the world's divers ??? I'd not have expected 'us' to be that dominant...interesting !

 

[Diver0001]

If you repeatedly find yourself engaging in pointless exchanges, it might be productive
to consider your motives.

LOL

Touché

I was a small child in the hey-day of diving when courses were run by ex-SEALs and everything was perfect.

I was certified in 1984, AFTER everything went to hell in a hand-basket.... or so I hear.

but I'm left wondering.... if training has been like this for 25 years and there hasn't been a huge spike in accidents then WHO is "pissing beside the pot"?

those who were certified in the last 25 years and somehow survived to talk about it or those who regardless of how convincing "reality" is, can't "let go" of how it was before that.....

R..