Is Telford Springs an Intro. Cave Dive?

[H2Andy]

i understand that Telford Springs, Luraville, Florida, has two gaps.

each gap coincides with a cavern zone.

is this an intro. cave dive, since intro. cave does not allow gaps or jumps?

or is it an ok intro. cave dive since the gaps are in the cavern zone?

 

[crawford]

i understand that Telford Springs, Luraville, Florida, has two gaps.

each gap coincides with a cavern zone.

is this an intro. cave dive, since intro. cave does not allow gaps or jumps?

or is it an ok intro. cave dive since the gaps are in the cavern zone?

The way I understand it is, if you enter at Terrapin Sink (most upstream sink), run your line to the mainline and continue into the cave, you're doing an Intro level dive (exiting at Terrapin on your return). If you enter the headspring, dive until you reach the gap, then back, that's an official by the book Intro dive (no gaps). Many feel that running these gaps is no big deal, but I'm pretty religious about training limitations. YMMV.

You can also enter the middle sink and go either direction as an Intro dive, but I think this is the worst part of the cave, so better to enter at Terrapin and see the best part of the system.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[loosebits]

There are a lot of people that would lynch me for this but I see no problem with gaps (not jumps!!) at the intro level assuming the diver feels absolutely confident in his/her ability to perform them. The reason I say this is doing a gap (bridging the end of 1 line with another) is absolutely no different from running a reel from OW to the main line. There is no complex navigation involved and doing a gap is actually easier than running the reel from OW (the tie off is much easier to find... it's the line).

Before I get completely flamed:

1) According to the "rules" penetrations are limited to simple linear swims only No jumps, circuits, traverses, or mazes are allowed. - Nothing mentioned about gaps and a gap is certainly a linear swim. My guess is the NSS-CDS is specifically silent on the issue to give instructors a bit of flexibility.

2) Rules are nothing more than guidlines, there are no scuba police, dive within your training and expierence. I feel that the training I receieved in running the reel from OW more than qualifies me to perform a gap (as I said, a gap is easier).

 

[H2Andy]

NSS-CDS into. guidelines say "no jumps or gaps to secondary passages"

so... not to be a lawyer, but you could interpret that to mean that a gap
along the main passage is ok

that said, i am not going to make that dive. it's there. it'll wait until i am full cave.

 

[loosebits]

Hmm, the ones I have say this:

1. Penetration is limited to one-third (1/3) of a single diving cylinder.

2. Penetrations are limited to simple linear swims only No jumps, circuits, traverses, or mazes are allowed.

3. 100 feet maximum depth.

4. 30 feet minimum visibility.

5. No restrictions (any area smaller than that which can be negotiated by two divers swimming side by side).

6. No decompression diving.

But as I said, there are no diving police. I feel completely comfortable doing simple gaps such as Pothole. I don't like the idea of going down "secondary passages" with my level of training, I'll stick with what is considered the "main" section of the cave. I've never dove Teleford so I have no idea what its like.

 

[H2Andy]

loosebits, make sure you have the updated set of rules. they changed it a few
years back? maybe two years?

i have the 2002 Workbook

 

[loosebits]

Yep, I guess I was trained under the old set of rules. Regardless, I feed comfortable doing simple gaps, my comfort level and expeirence didn't suddenly degrade when they changed the rules.

Anyway, I guess I'm a bit confused why you asked the original question, if the rules define what you feel qualified to do, the answer to your question is a resounding NO. The new version appearently says "no gaps" and mentions nothing about an exception for cavern zones, *you* should

Speaking of rule changes, I hear they also increased the depth limit for intro divers to 130 feet (I was trained with a limit of 100). I don't feel comfortable being in a cave at 130', I feel that narcosis is too much of a factor at that depth and I don't want to be dealing with an emergency at 125' (plus I alway dive 32 and I like to stay under 1.4 (111')). So, there are some rules I will appearently bend or break (the new no-gaps rule for example) and some I feel are too liberal for my taste (130').

 

[simbrooks]

From what i have heard, some intro instructors have used Telford and allowed the gap across the cavern. I have yet to go there and judging by the current rainstorms, it'll be flooded out again in no time just like all the other cave systems have been and will again soon be. There is also debate on this issue with regard to using the gaps and possibly it being a traverse if you dont make it all the way back to the starting point. Further issues are if permenant lines are put in across cavern zones as pothole kind of is and they are thinking of taking it back out again from being a "T" at that point. Its all on your mainline and linear interpritation, i have yet to do anything over that except the "T" at pothole, one day i might do it and full cave eventually.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Again (along with your "sixths" question) it is illustrative to look at the purpose of the rule.
The idea is that at the intro level, navigation be restricted to a single line, and that required reel handling be restricted to the main reel from open water to the main line. No intersections to negotiate and no reel running to mess with in the cave itself.
If you close a gap then you're outside the spirit of the rule, but (in my opinion) if a full cave qualified buddy closes the gap before you get there, thus creating a continuous main line (for you) across the gap, then you're within the spirit of the rule and can do it.
There are many cave divers who disagree with me and consider even a previously closed gap a no-no.
Rick

 

[H2Andy]

Anyway, I guess I'm a bit confused why you asked the original
question, if the rules define what you feel qualified to do, the answer to your
question is a resounding NO.

that's what i thought, and i declined a dive there recently. but apparently,
some instructors allow their students to dive Telford as an intro. cave.

thus my confusion and my question


Rick: thank you for the thoughful answer, here and on the 1/6 thread