Is the Mk VI / SE7EN really that dangerous

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The way he explains it, it just does a dil check on one cell, and an O2 check on another, against an expected PO2 reading for each. If they are what it assumes, then it's fine. The problem is when one fails and then it doesn't have the check against the other to validate functionality. They are not compared in the traditional sense of voting logic. At least that's my understanding. In the event of a cell failure, you are using one cell to try and maintain a loop. If it's the O2 cell that goes, it pegs you to a 1.0 PO2 and uses the dil cell to try and maintain that. If the dil cell goes, it uses the O2 cell to maintain a breathable loop. The issue lies when there is a failure of one cell or the other, in which you have zero way of validating the loop viability. Without validation, bailout is the only option. However, bailout is not always the only, or preferable option.

It's not a function of "more is better," it's a function of "more data is better." Voting logic in and of itself is subject to voting out a good cell as mentioned by @Superlyte27 however, having the available data from multiple sources allows you to determine which cell is valid. Let's say you have 2 current limited cells and one fully functional cell. You can determine which of the 3 cells are bad, and depending on where it's limited, you may be able to maintain all functionality at a lower PO2 level. You may also fly it with one cell, in which case you're in the same boat as the Poseidon. The point is, it gives you data with which to make choices. 2 cells doesn't give you a check against the other. 3 cells allows you to verify all 3 for functionality. Of course, worst case you could have 3 bad cells, but that's pretty darn unlikely.

And again, we're talking about a commercial system, not an industrial system that's been vetted by thousands of hours of unmanned and manned testing before being released into the wild. I guarantee that even one system part on a 737 has more testing before being integrated into the product line than every part of the Poseidon VI/Se7en combined.

Sure it's wiki, but it's a decent explanation on the benefits of actual redundancy and voting logic Redundancy (engineering) - Wikipedia

This talks about datacenter down time, but replace "data center" with "O2 cells" and it makes a lot of sense. Redundancy N+1, N+2 vs. 2N vs. 2N+1
 
Yea, that is how I undestand it too, based on what can be read on Poseidons web pages.
But is the lack of comparison a problem then? If the second cell gives expected readings in validation test, it will be used. I haven't seen much description on how this validation system is monitored and how its reliability is assured or how the system handles different error modes to keep the loop breathable.
But I do not automatically assume it is unreliable. I just sort of like the idea of active cell validation.
 
Another question that is unanswered in the manual, since it appears that there is a single solenoid for both O2 and dil injection, what happens in the event of a solenoid failure? Does it just piss both tanks into the system? Does it fail in one direction, only leaking one of the gases into the unit? Which one? If it fails closed and no O2 nor dil is injected into the unit, how do the sensors then validate the loop viability since it is incapable of running its validation routine based on pur gas being blown over the sensor?

Interesting.
 
The cells are not checked against each other. They are checked against a theoretical cell with allowances made for minor deviation in individual cell behaviour.

If the O2 cell fails then the dil cell will still be validated against the model.

The reason the O2 is primary is because O2 is continuously added throughout the dive, where diluent may not be.

If the solenoid fails and validation cannot be accomplished, the unit will tell you and then give you the best PPO2 reading it can based on the previous cell behaviour.
 
Does it differ from other units anymore? Leaving the "recreational rebreater" stuff aside, it now seems that someone new to rebreathers can buy a full spec unlimited Se7en and follow the same training path (i.e. TDI) with other rebreathers?
Well I could buy a fully unlocked se7en but it has to go back for service in 2 yrs. I have OC trimix and no desire to take a TDI trimix course to keep that feature unlocked on a CCR. I don't like having the brains in the batteries and the challenge of having a special spare (my Meg and Kiss take very user replaceable batteries I can find anywhere)

I also don't like the 24month required service interval or the fact that I cant reconfigure the tanks anyway I want. (inverted, right side up, offboard etc) For instance for wreck diving I use the onboard dil tank on my Meg for dil. For cave diving I use that cylinder as suit gas.

I can go either way on the single galvanic sensor - not a bit deal to me the way they have implemented that. But, I don't like the optical sensor at all. They have marketed that thing as the greatest gift to CCR diving ever. But they fail to mention the dye will eventually wear out (in ~8-10yrs but possibly sooner). To my mind those are not ready for life support use, especially the way the have incorporated and marketed them to people that don't understand how scientific instruments work and fail.
 
If you choose to send your unit in for a service, it will come back the way you sent it in. The certification is in the battery which stays with you anyway.

You can fit tanks inverted or not. You can plumb whatever you like into the BOV or the MAV.
 
If you choose to send your unit in for a service, it will come back the way you sent it in. The certification is in the battery which stays with you anyway.

You can fit tanks inverted or not. You can plumb whatever you like into the BOV or the MAV.
It's all good. I don't think the se7en is "dangerous" like the OP asked about. The mvi was pretty dodgy in terms of reliability but they seem to have addressed that. Its just not really the unit for me when I am an hour away from ISC and found a meg 2.7 used for a bargain. I since added the kiss mCCR which I enjoy as well. And I have a home built O2 "deco" RB.

The Poseidon offerings are overall quite a bit too automated for my tastes.
 
I guess Poseidon has found a source of O2 cells that reliably read pO2's of 11 or more, if I understand the "calibration" process? If you puff O2 on a cell at 100 m, and assume it stays pure O2 long enough in a small enough volume to make a reliable measurement, that is essentially what you are expecting to read at that depth. I am taking 100 m as an extreme, but already at 20 or 30 m, I would like to know which cell manufacturer would guaranty linearity... Shearwater gives up at 2.5 and they usually do things for a good reason.
 
I guess Poseidon has found a source of O2 cells that reliably read pO2's of 11 or more, if I understand the "calibration" process? If you puff O2 on a cell at 100 m, and assume it stays pure O2 long enough in a small enough volume to make a reliable measurement, that is essentially what you are expecting to read at that depth. I am taking 100 m as an extreme, but already at 20 or 30 m, I would like to know which cell manufacturer would guaranty linearity... Shearwater gives up at 2.5 and they usually do things for a good reason.
It only needs to go a bit above the setpoint to demonstrate continued linearity. 1.8+ppO2 is enough to illustrate that the cell is not compromised at ~1.3
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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