is there anything missing from the dive industry?

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Home << ShoeBox Compressors - The World's Smallest & Lightest 4500 PSI Compressor

still need a small low(er) pressure compressor and some type of filter system.


I just saw this today. I wrote the manufacturer asking why it says specifically not to use it for breathing from a scuba tank... is it because of lack of filtration? How can I filter the air safely? It seems brilliant to me and a great price. Very tempted to get it and experiment, but if it's going to kill me, I'll pass. I guess I don't see the difference between this and any other booster...
 
They also give staff 20% OFF everything

Shouldn't the discount be closer to 50% for staff, since LDS usually have high markups? Thought the price the LDS gets it from the manufacturer for, plus a small markup for stocking fees or whatever, was the standard employee discount.
 
I would like to see independent, unbiased, Consumer Reports style gear reviews. I know there is a lot of personal preference involved, but a comparison based on specs and knowledgeable user reviews would be helpful. Yes, I can go to manufacturer websites, but even with that there are inconsistencies (and sales pitches).

I also do not think that my LDS, even though thwy are great people, is sufficient for totally unbiased reviews.
 
I would like to see independent, unbiased, Consumer Reports style gear reviews.
Welcome to ScubaBoard. We've got lots of non-paid for reviews. I can't say they aren't biased, but I don't think that actually exists: not even with Consumer Reports.
 
Welcome to ScubaBoard. We've got lots of non-paid for reviews. I can't say they aren't biased, but I don't think that actually exists: not even with Consumer Reports.

I have used Scubaboard extensively for exactly that. Thank goodness a forum like this exists. I have specific people I have found on this board whose opinions I tend to value highly.

The challenge remains that it is still almost all preference based. I disagree on the bias in Consumer Reports. It presents factual comparison alongside user reviews, each complementing the other. SB gives preference only, with the occasional comment to go to mfgr for specs.

I will be starting tech training soon. I would love to see reg reviews somewhere. Currently, that does not seem to exist. It would be very nice to have
 
You can do that with any tank/regulator ... you just need to service it after surfacing
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Ok, here is what I think is missing in dive industry: a tank valve and a first stage that allow to swap tanks under water. That is, a specifically designed first stage and the valve where under water you can take the first stage off and put it on some other tank without surfacing.




---------- Post added December 5th, 2013 at 01:45 PM ----------

Tiger Woods is a cave diver.
But his insurance company doesn't let him dive.

Well that is not a good promotion, is it?



I think rather we need the certified celebrities to help promote it more -- there are several big name musicians that are divers - I believe Ozzy and Rhianna are two i can think of right now...
what we DONT need are the horror/"reality" shows that show us in a bad light -- sharknado, etc..
i keep getting questions about if diving is claustrophobic feeling and of course sharks...

inexpensive gas & CO2 analyzers ($50 & under) that connect to smart phones. (yes i know nitroxbuddy is out there but it's still not cheap or mainstream yet)


 
I think there is a real opportunity out there for an automated bank system that would allow an accurate progression through the banks at optimal flows. This could save a lot of energy and let the diver walk away with an acceptable over without consuming overly compressed gas. It wouldn't be much more than a collection of pressure switches, controlled valves, a PLC/HMI and a little software. A fun weekend project!

disclaimer: not a fill tech, but amature mad scientist. mods, if this goes too deep, feel free to break it off in its own thread. if i am incorrect in my understanding from research, please smack me down gently.

been mulling on this since you posted it. its one of those problems that seems simple, but as you look closer, gets very complex very quickly. using closed loop feedback for a single variable is pretty straightforward, but with filling you're juggling a lot more of em, while they are all interacting with each other, while trying to stay within regulation:

environment: if you dont want to get sued out of house and home, so you have to play by the rules. that means not knowingly exceeding industry limits, for me, this means CGA's fill limit of 70deg f @ working pressure. so no working backwards from tank air mass and calculating that for this fill's situation 3150psi will settle to 3000psi at 70f. the obvious cop out is a manual fill pressure adjustable by the operator... but that opens the liability window for willful misconduct of the operator.

flow rate: 300~600psi/min seems to be the common 'best practice', and i believe 600psi/min is the absolute max allowed by CGA. ive gotten 600psi/min before at a local quarry fill right off the compressor; 3200psi on the dock, 2800psi after splash. this is also diminishing returns, how close to 'perfect' do you want to be? with electronic control, what is the best psi/min vs psi curve? classic minmax problem: smack it with 600psi/min through 2000psi, then slow it down through the final pressure, or start with a slow 300psi/min or less, and then hammer it home? i think the former, but only experimentation would bear proper results.

working gas temp: what state is our fill gas in in the first place? hot off the compressor, or ambient stabilized banks? lets not even get into ppO2 combustion issues when dealing with banking nitrox.

feed pressure: the whole point of using cascades, larger usable psi range per bank tank. this is relatively straightforward for a single fill whip, just cycle through the cascade in order of increasing pressure. if you want to handle multiple whips, then you're looking at a much more complicated setup: cascade is routed to a pair of manifolds, one low, one high pressure, and the whips are switched from off to low pressure manifold to high psi manifold. oh, and pressure and temperature are related, so you have to figure out what feed pressure yields the best end result. more experimentation!

tank gas temp management: not directly measurable, but can be modeled. 3000psi line pressure does not mean much unless we have a good idea of how close to 'optimal' (again, working fill pressure @ 70f) the situation in the filled tank is. this depends on everything mentioned thus far.

compressor duty: how big is the compressor vs the cascade banks vs the fill rate? oh, and since we're talking intelligent control of cascade banks, do you use 1 compressor, or split it into two units

then you've got all the little production details. do you just mill and tap out a distro block and stick relays on it? or do you go full press and integrate your valving into the overall design? the former is $$$$$ for parts (air handling 'noids are pricey!) but may be best for a single whip design; the latter, $$$ for production complexity and time requirements, but allows much more flexibility in a multi whip design. for the simple single whip 3 cascade design, you're looking at least 5 'noid controlled valves (comp in, whip, bank [123]). for the dual manifold multi whip you've got two valves per bank, two valves per whip, and one or two valves for compressor input. thats ten (10!!) valves just for a three bank two whip setup.

while we're at it, might as well include the compressor and prime mover into the design. single compressor with binary load/unload is tried and true, but there may be some benefit to having a variable speed prime mover and/or breaking the compression cycle into two units. a two compressore design would also be very tightly coupled with the cascade controller and feed manifold pressure ranges. there are better layouts for multistage compressor that would possibly lower noise and vibration (boxer layout comes to mind). being more operator friendly on maintenance would be nice as well... seems nobody designs for the wrench monkey anymore.

oh, and we can't forget getting the unit certified! thats more $$$.

all this adds up to a very very high cost of entry, and subsequently a large sticker for any produced units. not really sure how bit the tank-fill market is, but i cant really see much room for a profitable super premium automated compress / bank / fill system. i think it'd be pretty awesome to design, implement and product such an item, but don't have 6 figures worth of capital laying around to throw at it and see if it sticks.

TL;DR: engineering is hard. making a profit is harder.
 

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