Jacket inflate vs Back inflate

[MauiScubaSteve]

Here in Florida, there will be many "open water divers" who will dive 10 times or less in a year. Between salt exposure to the mediocre quality BC's ( not high quality bc's, which admittedly Scubapro would represent) , and the heat exposure of sitting in a hot garage, I have seen and heard about many bc's that don't get more than 30 or 40 dives on them, before it is time to buy a new one.

I am not so sure it is quality of construction. Humans are lazy. Just because they know they should clean and properly store dive gear certainly does not mean the majority of divers take proper care of their equipment.

I thought every student in pretty much every course, after every dive or set of dives learns/practices/performs a proper wash, rinse, hang, unless it's getting packed wet, and that proper packing is the other half that we learn/practice/perform on training dives.

With proper care, many basic vest BC's make both thousands of ocean dives and thousands of pool dives. A few years ago I worked with a few Sherwood and Parkways BC's that had to have been 15 years old. :shocked2:

My gently used ex-resort gear, student/client quiver includes a M (retired resort bc - >2000 each), M/L (1st instructor bc retired - >2000/>1000) and L ('06 eBay instructor bc - ~1000 each since I got it). Color fade / coolness factor is the only real complaints I get (on the M & M/L); they all dive just fine. Cinderella's eBay XS probably has <30 dives; I'd still call it "no fade, near new."

​

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

First, I did not call you a blow hard. That was someone else on the board. I was actually trying to keep this exchange friendly.

First, I did not type or even imply that you called me a "blow hard" but it was funny that the poster who did call me a "blow hard" did so in the post right after you quoted yourself in the very next post. I guess the following is just a friendly "dog pile."

I don't know...that looks waaayy worse than a wedgie

Exactly, that's one of the most awful ways to use a dpv !

I don't care about the argument of how good a jacket is compared to a bp/w but if that's how a dpv can be used with a jacket, it does nothing for the jacket supporters.

no real control over where you're going and what not. Normally scooters are tied to your crotch strap and you're pulled along that way. Access to the throttle as well as trim control with it. That was probably taken as a gag picture

On one level, you could say the photo shows a jacket bc wearer sporting a large yellow suppository... .

On a more accurate appraisal, if precise control is important, then clearly the tow strap and crotch strap method is going to be used, as virtually the entire caving community would attest. If you are just blowing along far from any surfaces you could impact with, and you would like to shoot photos with your hands, then it could certainly work this way for some people....

1, I don't find his posts offensive, just a tad "blow hard". FYI that photo is is the "look ma no hands" of riding dpvs.

So I quickly perused youtube for some non-vest BC hands free Apollo riding and nobody made a sarcastic "dog pile" on the mostly BP/W divers.

Unlike the apollo, which in the 2nd avi you list actually runs the diver into the bottom ( whoa--potential silt out if in cave , the Gavin is so easy to control precisely you would really have to WANT to hit the bottom in order to hit it....Accidental hit means control is not optimal...at least that was my take from the video......

Instead you seem to try to use the fact that most lurkers don't follow links, and don't mention that the diver who hits the bottom is a spring strap jet fin BP/W diver wearing a fairly similar rig to yours. That BP/W diver girl that "grazes" the bottom with "a fin tip" was showing off for the camera, doing "look ma no hands" barrel rolls until she was dizzy-er than normal; "she does nothing for the BP/W supporters."

She drove the scooter into the bottom but instead you type that "the Apollo runs her into the bottom"(sic) and add a blurb about silting out a cave; if that "accidental hit means control is not optimal in your take on the video" I think you need to look at the video again.

When a diver needs control, the Apollo scooters can be controlled just fine in hands free mode.

The thing is that, just like Vest BC's vs BP/W's, there are waaay more Apollo scooters being dived every day than there are probably cave scooters in existence. the "superman" position (or superwoman) does certainly work, probably for more people, not "some people." :mooner:

"Normally" there is no crotch strap to tie the tow line that does not exist for the most commonly operated dive scooter. I'm pretty sure the manufacturer "recommends" that style of riding as the most energy efficient way to operate their scooters!

 

[danvolker]

.......
"Normally" there is no crotch strap to tie the tow line that does not exist for the most commonly operated dive scooter. I'm pretty sure the manufacturer "recommends" that style of riding as the most energy efficient way to operate their scooters!

Halemano, this has devolved into useless discussion and bickering..
Since mastersniper already bought a vest bc, you can even walk away from this thread knowing that your advice guided a new diver much more than mine did. It's a win for you.
What do you say we let this thread die, and move on.

Regards,
DanV

 

[DevonDiver]

Poodles with scooters is just plain silly.


...and if you wanted proof...

 

[marinediva]

CSA

apparently for the record
there have been a number of tests on divers wearing different configurations of equipment,
and those tests were not done by manufacturers.

can't get the whole article but maybe others can.

 

[Crush]

CSA

apparently for the record
there have been a number of tests on divers wearing different configurations of equipment,
and those tests were not done by manufacturers.

can't get the whole article but maybe others can.

Ask and ye shall receive: View attachment 01152308.pdf

 

[danvolker]

CSA

apparently for the record
there have been a number of tests on divers wearing different configurations of equipment,
and those tests were not done by manufacturers.

can't get the whole article but maybe others can.

Related to this, I dove for almost 2 decades using Scubapro and Seaquest style jacket bc's in the Jupiter/Juno and Palm Beach areas ( 80's and up to mid nineties)...so I can say I had tested this style of gear exhausitively, in some of the most extreme current conditions a recreational diver could ever come into contact with....sites like the offshore facing Juno ledge ( which at one point becomes the Hole in the wall), were famous for huge fish, big adventure dives, but with often dramatically powerful currents. In areas like the rolls of Juno ( mid crown on a massively wide reef crown area, about 95 feet deep, the rolls were an area where huge expanses of sand covered limestone would give way to round circle shaped "blowouts" where a a deep undercut ledge area would be filled with lobster and many types of fish--like running into an oasis in a desert)....you would drift along the large expanses of sand, until you saw a blowout in the distance--often at a large side angle to your drift. Getting out of the current is a big deal there, and being effective at moving against or at an angle to the current is key as well.
While I was having a great time doing these dives for many years, after I saw how effective the Halcyon bp/wing set up was on a very high current wreck environment, I tried it, and found it massively superior. Upon buying a halcyon bp/wing setup, and doing all the juno rolls dives and offshore facing ledge dives, all over again, there was no comparision....my ability to enjoy these areas was greatly increased with the Halcyon setup, and I believe the safety advantage was massive as well.
What I am saying is, my own "testing" showed no contest, and I would expect anyone who has dived a jacket BC on the rolls and offshore facing ledge area for years, who will also frequently find themself on a sideways or upcurrent "mission" ( like to grab a lobster)....would find the bp/wing system just as superior for these conditions as I did..and still do

And...there are halcyon bp/wing set ups that can be borrowed, demoed, or rented....the testing IS easy to do..the cost is really the diving you wil enjoy anyway

Regards,
DanV

 

[marinediva]

Thanks mpetryk,
heaps more if people are interested.
DO a search using Google Scholar.
My key words were Hydrodynamics Scuba Equipment

I think the OP has made a good choice for his first BCD.
As my Ma would say, I am sure the jacket is something you will grow out of.

 

[TSandM]

I have to say, this thread brought a small smile to my face.

In 2007, Mike Guerrero posted THIS thread. He also participated, although I can't find the thread now, in a long and acrimonious discussing of the i3, during which many people tried to convince him that it wasn't as good a choice as he could make for a BC.

What is Mike Guerrero diving in 2010? A backplate, wing, and long hose, and I daresay he hasn't looked back.

We try a lot here to help people avoid the mistakes we made when we bought gear we subsequently replaced. But some people really learn best through experience.

 

[SangP]

I have to say, this thread brought a small smile to my face.

In 2007, Mike Guerrero posted THIS thread. He also participated, although I can't find the thread now, in a long and acrimonious discussing of the i3, during which many people tried to convince him that it wasn't as good a choice as he could make for a BC.

What is Mike Guerrero diving in 2010? A backplate, wing, and long hose, and I daresay he hasn't looked back.

We try a lot here to help people avoid the mistakes we made when we bought gear we subsequently replaced. But some people really learn best through experience.

Exactly, with a couple of exceptions there are not a lot of other designs out there that one can custom fit perfectly to one's body and dive style.

Only a transpac, zeagle express tec, oxycheq recon harness and the razor kit allows similar adjustments but all in all, a bp/w stands as one of the best investments in diving for sheer simplicity, adjustability, flexibility and portability.

SangP