Jupiter Dive Report

[Razz]

My 16 year old son and myself went on a 2 tank dive in Jupiter this past Friday 7/3/09. This was our first dive since open water certification in March. We did two of our open water certification dives in Curacao and the other two in St. Thomas.

We dove with Jupiter Dive Center. We hired a private dive master to go along with us and rented equipment (except for masks) from the dive center.

Somehow another individual ended up going along with us. The DM asked if it would be OK and I said it would. I did, however, feel that this was a bit odd as I was the one hiring the private DM. As it turned out the other individual was experienced and stayed a good distance away. I guess the negative feeling was more the principle of it.

Since this was our first dive since certification, I felt that having a private DM along would be a good idea for safety.

The diversity of the wildlife was better than I had expected. We had not experienced drift diving before and we both found this enjoyable as well. The water at the deeper levels was quite cold. I'm glad we had full body wet suits.

Now for the really stupid part of the experience (my fault entirely). Most people there dove with Nitrox. People on air were to be down for no more than 25 minutes and people with nitrox were to be down for no more than 45 minutes. Our private DM had a nitrox tank. I didn't have a recreational dive planner with us and I didn't have a fancy computer. I told the DM this ahead of time. Now, just going from the feel of things, it seemed that we were down longer than 25 minutes on each of the two dives. The surface interval also didn't feel like 1 hour and 15 minutes like it should have been. I didn't pay close enough attention to the details like I should have. I placed my safety and that of my son's in the hands of someone else.

We both did fine and didn't suffer any symptoms of decompression illness. After looking at the recreational dive planner. I was stunned to see just how close we were to potential disaster. We also didn't have any supplemental dive insurance. It looks like going with something like DAN would be well worth it.

I was a bit stunned at the conclusion of the dive when the private DM just up and left without as much as a thank you for employing his services or even a simple goodbye. This also heightened my nervousness about my stupidity. I hope that he truly had our best interest, which is our safety, in mind.

I did learn a lot in general about diving as my learning curve is very steep. The inflatable sausage devices appear very handy. My son had a tough time holding at 15 feet for the 3 minute safety stop. The DM handed him the line which he put at 15 feet and had him hang on. He did really well with that. The DM also had a quacker type of device that makes a different sound on top and under the water which can alert others from far away. This also appears to be a good safety device.

The most important thing that I came away from this dive with is the fact that I need to be much more prepared than I was. I will definitely invest in a dive computer. It also looks like the nitrox training would be well worth it as an added safety measure as well. I will definitely dive Jupiter in the future. I'm not so certain that I will go with Jupiter Dive Center again. I will likely have my own equipment in the near future and go with a different charter service.

I'm sure that you more experienced divers might have a lot to say about my experience. Feel free to share your thoughts.

-Mark

 

[scuba066]

Thanks for the dive report. I agree with you on all points. Yes, you need to be better prepared. And, you need to be as responsible for your safety as your experience allows. But, all this comes with experience. I think hiring a DM was a good call on your part. Based on what you have said, the DM you hired was negligent.
As your private DM, he should have been keeping you and your son within a safe diving envelope. End of discussion, that is a DM job.
A couple of additional thoughts:
1. Get a computer for you and your son. There are some great performers at reasonable prices, check out some of the scubaboard threads
2. You should never dive without a means to monitor your bottom time. I dive with my computer and my dive watch.
3. And, there are good and bad DMs out there. Maybe next time you can get some recommendations here at scubaboard.
I hope your next dive is more enjoyable!

 

[Johnoly]

..... People on air were to be down for no more than 25 minutes......

" Down " does not refer to the time you splash until the time you hit the fresh air surface. The 25 minutes refers to the time you are on the bottom. Which brings up another point, if the dive was in 80 feet of water (to the sand) and you were diving near the top of the reef, you really were diving at 60 feet not 80 feet and this will alter the way you look at the tables. You won't know your depth because you didn't have a log to go back and review which is why we wear dive computers.

Most of the DM's at JDC are very responsible and I'm guessing that even though he may have been diving nitrox, he probably had his own computer set to air to mimic your tank profiles. I'm also guessing he asked you several times underwater what your tank pressure was. You still may want to voice your concerns to JDC's owner Gerry who is extremely customer service oriented and always likes to hear about dives and employees.

On a side note, I started out diving just like you on rental equipment and no computer. I was not able to get really comfortable being underwater until I had 30-40 dives logged. Today I'm well past a 1000+ but some dives still scare the crud out of me. Cautious, alert, and safe is all good. Keep diving, it gets alot more comfortable.

 

[Chipmon]

Based on what you have said, the DM you hired was negligent.
As your private DM, he should have been keeping you and your son within a safe diving envelope. End of discussion, that is a DM job.
There is no way to determine that this was not done based upon the given information


And, there are good and bad DMs out there. Maybe next time you can get some recommendations here at scubaboard.
It has been my experience that the DM's at JDC as well as the entire staff are some of the best around.

That being said, Johnoly has made several good, valid points. I typically base bottom time on my computer from splash to begining of ascent, thst is because I swim down to the bottom pretty fast. Being beginners, you likely had a nice, slow descent, did your multi level dive (meaning that you were not at 80' the entire dive) probably enjoying the top of the ledge for a portion of the dive, and then a safe slow ascent to the surface. Yes, from the time you jumped off the boat until the time you were back on the surface was likely longer than 25 minutes, but that is completely acceptible and not endangering you or your son. I am just guessing here, but as beginners, diving aluminum 80's your air consumption had you been consistantly at 80' would have ended the dive earlier than the 25 minutes allowed. Please as a newbie, learn from this, ASK questions of the divemaster! If it was my son, I damn sure would have asked about the bottom time and the surface interval prior to entering the water for the 2nd dive. I encourage you to buy your own gear, to include a good computer. This sport is wonderful and can provide lifelong enjoyment for you and your son. Go back to JDC and tell Gerry (the owner) of your concerns and I can guarantee he will look into your dive and likely consult the DM who will have records of the dives stored in his computer for you to see. JDC has proven time and again to be one of the safest, classiest and best run operations in the area. I encourage you to give them the opportunity to answer your questions themselves. I hope the two of you go on to become skilled divers and grow to love this sport as much as those of us who live for it! Peace, love aqnd GOOD DIVING!

 

[scuba066]

Yes, you are correct Chipmon, maybe they were with in limits, maybe not. But, for a privately hired DM to not conduct a debrief with new divers after such a dive is extremely poor. Based on Razz description of the dive, there are several issues the DM could had went over with the new divers to make there next dive safer and more enjoyable. I am sure this is why Razz hired a DM and he certainly did not get his moneys worth.

 

[Orlando Eric]

My .02 cents worth. You got a crappy DM. Had you hired a "safety diver" I would say you got your money's worth because there were no rescues done.

You hired a guide. According to your account of the dive you were not guided.

I dive two boats in Jupiter. JDC and Blue Tang. Blue Tang is more of a advanced boat often full of salty spearfisherman.

For the kind of diving you are looking for JDC is the opt.

Scubaboardians have experience and are infamous for slinging Poo or Praise as earned by Ops, Dive Professionals or just people in general. IF I was planning a dive out of town I'd post it up here first and read the responses with great interest.

PS-- I did do this as a matter of fact with the ITK IV trip we are taking 9th ~13th. I am staying at a Private Yacht Club for half the $$$$ it would have cost me at the local hotel--

 

[sportxlh]

too bad you had such a bad experience: I have been out with JDC a few times and have always found the DMs which JDC has on every boat to be very responsible and careful. I have only been out with 10 or so different operators and JDC DMs have been some of the best.

Another option would be to try WPB (just a few miles south of jupiter) on your next trip to FL: many operators put DMs in the water and many of the reefs are not quite as deep as Jupiter. For new divers, Scuba Club does a nice job. Even further south, Boynton has beautiful reefs and has even shallower reefs but usully no DMs unless you hire one.

 

[pickens_46929]

Razz,

Glad you got some underwater time with your son. Enjoy these trips and repeat often. Before you know it kids grow up and leave the nest.

I've been out with Jupiter Dive Center and they are a great operator. Very safe and professional in my opinion. I would say that you got a clunker of a DM / Guide. Half of the job is communication and it appears like he just didn't communicate very well. That's also a two way street -- if you're uncomfortable or not getting the service or information from the Dive Master / Guide, ask questions "How do you keep track of your time underwater?" or "Why do you have XYZ brand?", tell him what you want to see or do underwater "We'd really like to see eels..." or "What's the plan for checking air?"

Dive computers are nice. Nitrox is good but not 100% necessary. If you're not going to actively review and use the tables, then get a couple of inexpensive air only computers. Better still get something that provides the option for Nitrox so you're all set to go.

Scuba Gear Scuba Diving Equipment Discount dive gear Snorkeling Equipment and Wetsuits Cheap online has some nice little units on clearance / sale.

3 pieces of safety equipment to always dive with in my opinion... sausage or surface marker, whistle or noise maker and gloves. Even though people say gloves encourage touching, I've had enough fish hooks and barbs in my hands on the lines to say "enough" and always use gloves.

 

[TCMav]

Well, I would normally not chime in, but I almost feel a bit slighted here. I have been a DM for 9 years and I have 26 years diving experience. That being said, I never take chances when it comes to safety. I stay well within my limits and those that I or those that I am diving with prefer.
Let me say this, both divers did very well for not diving that long. I made a point to tell them every chance I got throughout the day. Being a personal DM for someone that can dive so well makes my day much easier.
I wish any issue might have been expressed to me as soon as it came up.
Here was the dive profile lifted off my computer as follows....

first dive: 80 fsw (max) for a 25 minute bottom time. Followed by a one minute stop at 40 fsw and a 3 minute safety stop at 15 fsw....

Surface interval was 1:04 .......

Second Dive: 72 fsw (max) for a 25 minute bottom time. Followed by a one minute safety stop at 40 fsw and a 4 minute safety stop at 15 fsw.... I stayed a little longer on the second safety stop because the son looked like he was having a great time rolling around in the water..

Throughout both dives I monitored their air, time and stress levels. All were very good. I was in constant communication with both divers and asked if they were ok a minimum of a dozen times. I was NEVER more than 10 feet from one or the other at any time during the dive.
At JDC, a personal divemaster trip is not a personal dive trip. Usually we just drop with the entire group. But that day I thought I would try and make it special for a couple of divers that had not dove in our area before. I asked the captain if he could drop a few of us 100 feet from the other group and he agreed. In hind sight, maybe I should have dropped in with the main group. I was only trying to make the experience a better one. I am sorry if you did not understand that having a personal DM does not mean you get a personal drop. That was a decision made by the captain and myself.
As the personal DM, I carried all your tanks to the boat in the morning and back to the shop when you were done. I went back out on the afternoon trip that same day.
The dive breifing was given by the Dive Guide on the boat. I let you know to pay close attention to that because that is going to be our profile. It is the dive guide's role to give that dive breifing. It is my job to enforce that same breifing if you had any questions. That is why I asked you to feel free to ask me if you had any.
I am really not sure how to say I am sorry that your experience was poor. I am not sure I could have done anything else. I said on our way in and I will say it again.... thank you very much for diving with us, and tried very hard to show you the best reefs that our area has to offer. I hope you try diving us again, because I think both of you really enjoyed our reefs and ledges. Thanks, Doug

 

[Razz]

Thank you to those who have responded. And thank you very much TCMav for posting the dive profile. Seeing this does make me feel much better. I actually had a hard time sleeping the night after the dive do to my anxiety about developing symptoms of DCI. Again, this was my first dive after the certification dives which occurred in the Caribbean this past March. The certification dives were conducted in a very controlled and informative setting.

When I had asked the JDC staff about hiring a DM, I was told that the DM was basically there to hold our hands the entire time. I didn't inquire any further about specifics and didn't really know what else to expect.

During the dives, the DM did stay by our sides the entire time and did check with us frequently to see if we were OK. He gave my son a pair of gloves to wear during the second dive and he even gave my son his dive light to try out in looking at the various sites which I thought was very nice.

My anxiety about this dive stems mainly from my inexperience and lack of appropriate questions. My main concern had to do with the dive profile. A bit of a post dive debriefing would have been nice. The DM has logged over 7000 dives. This was my 5th and 6th dives. I know I have a lot to learn and it seems that I just learned a HUGE lesson. I didn't have the proper equipment along to monitor my own status and safety and I relied on someone else to do this for me.

My wife and my 13 year old daughter are going to be getting certified next month. I absolutely love diving and am planning to keep on learning. In the days following the dive in Jupiter, I have been doing some reading about DAN on their website. I think perhaps going with the family membership would be excellent insurance to have. I look forward to continue learning from my experiences. I am hopeful that this will be a hobby that my family can do together. I suspect that future trips and vacations will in part be planned around diving.

-Mark