Just bought some new gear from Scubatoys

[Al Mialkovsky]

What more could I ask for?

As soon as my wife gets her C-card I'll be calling Scubatoys again to set her up.

I know one more thing you could ask for. Air fills. Is scubatoys going to fill your tanks?

 

[Kestrell]

Congratulations -- you are the mythical beast that the LDSs assure us doesn't exist: a consumer able to educate themself, perform diligent research, and make a purchase from your choice of vendors based on the criteria important to you.

(Well, with Genesis gone, *somebody* had to say it....)

Thanks, I've done about two months of research and the equipment I purchased is the equipment I wanted, based on my needs (type of diving, price, quality, etc.) and future servicing was definitely a consideration, but not the only one.

As an aside, it really is terrible that there is no one impartial authoritative source for product information. If someone could figure out how to put something like that together, they'd make a fotune. Instead we have to rely on magazines (dependant on advetising money) to review products, and local dive shops (some; not all), operating like medieval fiefdoms, protecting their turf and recommending only what they sell. I can see how easy it would be for someone to end up with incorrect gear for what they wanted to do, simply because there is nobody to turn to.

 

[Allen42]

Keep in mind that they *are* a LDS to many of us, with all of the brick-and-mortar amenities. Don't penalize them because they also do a decent amount of honest internet business while competing with those that don't.

 

[Kestrell]

I know one more thing you could ask for. Air fills. Is scubatoys going to fill your tanks?

No, my local dive shop will be happy to fill my tanks.

I'm not really sure what you are implying; or even if you are implying anything.

 

[Kestrell]

Keep in mind that they *are* a LDS to many of us, with all of the brick-and-mortar amenities. Don't penalize them because they also do a decent amount of honest internet business while competing with those that don't.

Exactly. I don't distinguish between Scuba Toys and my two local dive shops. Prior to my purchase I spoke with one of the employees for about 10 minutes on gear. He was unable to answer one of my questions as thoroughly as I wanted, so he handed me off to one of the owners (Larry). Larry spoke with me for about 15 minutes helping me narrow down my choices and never once tried to close the deal. A week or two later, after I decided on my equipment I called and spoke directly with Larry for 40 minutes. In retrospect I think he was trying to make sure I was getting the right gear for the type of diving I wanted to do. Anyway, I gave him my credit card number and he sent the gear out the following day. I was assured I could return anything if it didn't fit or if I did not like it. Other than the fact that we were talking over the phone, it was a pretty normal dive shop/customer conversation/transaction. To be fair, there is a downside; you obviously can not try things on in the store. To counter that Larry said he would send out a few sizes of something and I could try them on and return what didn't fit (I didn't take him up on this). Yes, it is a bit of a hassle to do that, but the selection and price difference far outweighs this in my opinion. On my purchase alone I probably saved at least $600 to $700 over what a local dive shop would have charged me and I would have had to go to three different shops to buy what I bought from one, and with full factory warantees too.

Don't get me wrong, I like my local shop, and will be giving them my business as well, but I work hard for my money and I see nothing wrong with saving some to spend frivilously on things like food and the mortgage once the neccessities like scuba gear are take care of. Also, I don't want to hear that I should support my local dive shop by blindly giving them my business. If I did that, I might as well go support my local car dealer by letting them over-charge my for my next car.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

No, my local dive shop will be happy to fill my tanks.

I'm not really sure what you are implying; or even if you are implying anything.

Was I too vague? My question stands. When you've all saved 25% or so on your internet purchases and the LDS goes out of business, who will fill your tanks?

Isn't it nice that you have a LDS that will fill your tanks even though you didn't support them with your major purchases? Don't you hope they stay in business???

 

[billseamon]

I do have a problem with the local dive shops having to change sooooo much comparied to the internet places. Here is So Cal, I have the best of both worlds. Discount Divers (now SCUBA.COM) is 10 minutes from where I work. They will meet Leisure Pro Prices and have full factory warrenty, a local retail shop, and they fill tanks. I believe with the internet, the local dive shops need a new business model. I am all for supporting the local dive shop if the price difference was a few precent, but when the price differece is 50 to 100 percent.... For what you save on major purchases, you can almost buy you own compressor for outfitting a couple of divers. The other advantage of Scuba.com is they have a large inventory so everything is instock and right there to try the different sized. A small dive shop that can't have the inventory usually has to order what I am looking for anyhow.

Either the local dive shops need to work in certifications, air fills, and the beginner diver buying gear there as his business model or not survive. I feel for the small dive shops, one of my friends had a dive shop that went under, but when you are talking serious money for the difference, you as a consumer would have to be nuts to buy there.

Then you add some of the local dive shops ripping off their customers. I bought my ex wife's Transpack II several years ago from the local dive shop. Paid $750.00 for the pack and wings. Then he wanted to sell me the low pressure hose extra. Also Dive Rite was giving a T shirt with the purchase of the Transpack. guess what, the dive shop had the shirts on the rack with a price of $15.00. I ended up buying my own Transpack II from Leisure Pro for $450, and got a low pressure hose and T shirt no problems.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

You are going to save 15K by shopping the internet? That's serious shopping. That is what an average compressor runs.

But wherever you want, but when your local diveshop dies, oh well......

 

[scubatoys]

You are going to save 15K by shopping the internet? That's serious shopping. That is what an average compressor runs.

But wherever you want, but when your local diveshop dies, oh well......

As far as local dive shops closing and people not being able to get their tanks filled... Don't think that is too much of a problem. All the shops are not going to close... There will still be one or 2 in each city - the ones that can stay competitive because the run strong business models, keep their overhead low, buy right, market well, etc. Also, I'm not sure about your area, but in Dallas here - the only person who needs a tank filled is someone who wants to get in a pool. If you are going diving - you are heading out to one of the rock quarrys, or lakes, and they have fill stations there that fill tanks. Also a lot of Fire Depts have compressors and will fill tanks.


And 15K for a compressor?? Wow... If a dive shop has 15K in an item that brings them very little profit - maybe that is why they are going out of business. I bought a 12 CFM Bauer with under 1000 hours and full panel, filters, and 2 bank bottles for under $7,000. I also have a 3CFM Oil less Rix for nitrox fills that I bought for $2700. So I have no where near that investment in a Compressor and we certify over 1000 students a year, have an on site pool, and a 10,000 square foot show room.

I believe there is, and will be, major changes in this industry. The only difference is I saw them coming 6 years ago. I started complaining about the net... but complaining didn't make me any money. So instead I studied my ass off, learned to write HTML and ASP code, bought graphics packages, analyzed buying trends, search engine optimization, net marketing, and buried myself in my office working on pages. I started talking to my vendors, looking for special quantity buys, where I could save a few bucks and pass it on in specials to draw people to our site.

Now I'm not saying a dive shop has to be on the net to be successful. I have friends with very successful shops that don't do any net sales. They fill trips like crazy, get very high return rates for continuing education classes, carry lot's of specialized and custom gear that people really won't feel comfortable buying on the net - market to local businesses to put together scuba classes and trips as team building experiences for their employees, and more.

To the dive shops that are doing poorly, I'd have to ask the owner, can you list the 3 things you did today to increase business and revenue? For a vast majority that will not be 1. Called on American Airlines to put together a promotion for their employees for a Free discover scuba day. 2. contacted a large apartment complex for a Saturday by the pool dive experience, and 3. Called the last 50 students that only have OW cert that had marked their folder that they might be interested in advanced education to invite them to join our next advanced class starting in 2 weeks.

For a vast majority of the ones I see, ask them the 3 things they did for their business that day it will be, 1. Called up the Mares Rep and complained about internet pricing. 2. Called up the Tusa Rep and complained about internet pricing. 3. Refused to sign up a student for a nitrox class because he bought his computer on line.

Gee... why are they not successful?

If a business can't figure out what the future brings, and mold their model accordingly, it is unfair to ask the consumer just to pay more money because that business man is incompetent.

Someone once asked Willie Mays what makes a great outfielder. He said, "that's easy. A good outfielder knows where the ball is.... A great one knows where it will be."

 

[HammerNoMore]

Well said Larry.