Just venting...

[hijax]

I think in the original situation, the best time to discuss proper protocol regarding waving to the boat was at the time that the guy was waving at the boat. The guy that was reminded (so we are told) wasn't embarrassed, it was a 3rd party friend that thought the OP was being "too technical". In a situation where 3 friends are patiently waiting at the surface after a dive, I'd hope that they can freely discuss the dive, including letting the guy know in a friendly manner at the moment that he is engaged in the behavior, that waving to the boat isn't an appropriate way to get their attention.

You nailed it.

 

[ev780]

I empathize. I am also known for being a PITA. After doing a full dive plan and head-to-toe gear check, one of my dive buddies turned to our third team member and said, "Does she always do this for a 20 foot reef dive?". And the third buddy, who knows me well, said, "Yup. Get used to it."

Eric Sedletzky nailed it. Find people who think like you do and dive with those people. That's what I did, and I couldn't be happier.

I would have pegged you as a surgeon after this post. But alas you are an ER doc.

 

[mrdre]

I think this response is worthy of discussion from two points of view.

1. As Bob correctly points out, this is an old, ridiculous myth that should be stamped out. The DM needs some education on this.

2. The DM's manner was very unprofessional. If I were his employer and knew about this, he would get some remedial education about customer relations. Even if what he said were true, he should not have said it that way. It reminds me of the time a waiter corrected my pronunciation of the wine I was ordering in front of everyone else at the table--and he was wrong. I did not make a deal about it at all, but I was angry. The rest of the table was educated enough to know the waiter was wrong, so I was not embarrassed, but even if he had been right, it was wrong to educate me publicly in that fashion. When you embarrass people, it is usually not to anyone's advantage. A quiet and unobtrusive explanation would be better. That is why in the original situation, if it had been me, I would have waited for a later time to talk about proper signals with my buddy.

1. Yeah, it looks like it's an urban legend. Bob is right. But.. could that be that somebody thought of using "mask on the forehead" as a distress "attention" signal? Like the one when you raise and hold fist - "I need attention" signal. Somebody, sometime could have thought about that. Some generation of divers learned that. Now some divers still follow it. I heard from 2 more people (divers in their 60-ies) that mask on the forehead is used as an attention signal.

2. Yeah, I agree. Moreover we weren't his students or anything. We were customers. Especially you in the restaurant - you are a customer, can pronounce anything any way you want.

 

[boulderjohn]

1. Yeah, it looks like it's an urban legend. Bob is right. But.. could that be that somebody thought of using "mask on the forehead" as a distress "attention" signal? Like the one when you raise and hold fist - "I need attention" signal. Somebody, sometime could have thought about that.

The origin of this is pretty clear. Students are taught to recognize the signs of a panicked diver. One of them is equipment rejection. A panicked diver will often discard a regulator and shove the mask off the face. Over the years, the typical OW course has described it in different ways. The mask being shoved off may end up on the forehead, and, combined with other signs, may indicate a panicked diver. Then you have to make a multiple choice exam, and you ask for signs of a panicked diver. You list three, including a mask on the forehead, and you finish up with "All of the above," which is the correct answer. Suddenly having a mask on the forehead is a sign of a panicked diver. Before long, each sign of a panicked diver becomes a sign by itself, even though only a certified idiot is going to leap into the water to save someone chatting amiably with a friend after casually sliding a mask up to the forehead.

There is no reason to devise a deliberate sign for a panicked diver. A panicked diver is not going to make any rational, deliberate decision to use such a sign to communicate panic. You don't do anything rational and deliberate when you are panicking.

 

[mrdre]

The origin of this is pretty clear. Students are taught to recognize the signs of a panicked diver. One of them is equipment rejection. A panicked diver will often discard a regulator and shove the mask off the face. Over the years, the typical OW course has described it in different ways. The mask being shoved off may end up on the forehead, and, combined with other signs, may indicate a panicked diver. Then you have to make a multiple choice exam, and you ask for signs of a panicked diver. You list three, including a mask on the forehead, and you finish up with "All of the above," which is the correct answer. Suddenly having a mask on the forehead is a sign of a panicked diver. Before long, each sign of a panicked diver becomes a sign by itself, even though only a certified idiot is going to leap into the water to save someone chatting amiably with a friend after casually sliding a mask up to the forehead.

There is no reason to devise a deliberate sign for a panicked diver. A panicked diver is not going to make any rational, deliberate decision to use such a sign to communicate panic. You don't do anything rational and deliberate when you are panicking.

Makes perfect sense. I guess for those DMs it was "heard something somewhere, but don't remember what and don't remember where".

 

[boulderjohn]

Makes perfect sense. I guess for those DMs it was "heard something somewhere, but don't remember what and don't remember where".

As Bill (Hawkwood) implied above, it is all too clear where they heard it. The myth has taken on a life of its own, and it is repeated in OW dive classes around the world. When I was first a DM assisting classes, I heard instructors tell it to students, and they would even include some kind of penalty for divers who put their masks on their foreheads during class. I bet several thousand new divers hear their instructors tell them this every year.

 

[yardpro]

Even among experienced divers, miscommunication can lead to difficulties. I recently had an experience where I misunderstood a buddy's signal ... because he thought he was telling me one thing and I thought he was telling me something different ... and it led to us becoming separated in a low-vis situation. Not a good thing when you have a deco obligation.

There's much to be said for standardized signals ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added September 9th, 2014 at 07:52 AM ----------



That's a pretty worrisome post coming from someone with 0-24 dives. There are a ton of things that can happen to you on a dive as a result of poor communication. I can think of several that would absolutely ruin your good time. We teach new divers "rules" for that reason. Later on ... when you have enough experience to begin to comprehend why those "rules" exist, then perhaps you can make an informed decision about which ones you can safely ignore without taking the fun out of what you're doing ... but for now, given your stated experience level, I'd recommend taking them rather more seriously than your post suggests ... for your own safety as well as that of anyone you happen to be diving with ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added September 9th, 2014 at 07:56 AM ----------



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Lol... I have a few hundred under my belt... Thanks...
im just not anal enough to update my profile, but thanks for your worries.

 

[uncfnp]

As Bill (Hawkwood) implied above, it is all too clear where they heard it. The myth has taken on a life of its own, and it is repeated in OW dive classes around the world. When I was first a DM assisting classes, I heard instructors tell it to students, and they would even include some kind of penalty for divers who put their masks on their foreheads during class. I bet several thousand new divers hear their instructors tell them this every year.

In my OW course, any student caught with a mask on the forehead had to buy the instructor a case of beer. It became almost a game to try and catch someone.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
im just not anal enough to update my profile, but thanks for your worries.

I guess that goes hand in hand with not being anal enough to encourage your buddy to use proper hand signals.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I would have just said "hey Dick, stop waiving before they call the Coast Guard" but that's me.