Kingshorn from shore

[Eric__U]

i remember once in sarnia having some kind of jetboat race going right over us. Probably like 25 boats

 

[regtech17]

Art, Deep and cold water diving isnt for everyone. To some degree one can build a resistance to narcosis. You must determine what your limits are and we all have limits. Play within those limits and you can enjoy diving for many years to come. Play it safe and enjoy yourself.

Regtech17

 

[JimC]

And now you understand why I thumbed the dive 2 days eariler.

Not equiped properly, and team experince level were lacking.


Glad you survived and learned from the experince. Perhaps a more conservative dive this weekend Art?

 

[barb]

We used Air (big mistake) On reflection it is possible that we would have had more control over the dive narcosis wise if we were using a mixture of EAN probably 36.
Art

If you're looking to rid yourself of narcosis, using Nitrox is'nt really the answer. You need Helium. Using a EAN36 will reduce your nitrogen for sure but you will still get narced (especially when the water is this cold). The main advantage will be in the reduced or eliminated deco.
Carrying or having a redundant air source is always and excellent idea.

Good Luck
Barb

 

[Dan MacKay]

I could not agree more with Barb on this one. Most prudent divers now calculate the percentage of O2 as being narcotic. That is your Equivalent Nitrogen Depth (END) is the same as diving 100% N2. Recent study has been inconclusive but does extrapolate that given the molecular weight of Nitrogen (15) and Oxygen (16) then O2 should be at least as narcotic as N2. The problem of achieving accurate data is that O2 is toxic at high partial pressures. Nitrogen narcosis manifests itself around 100'(30m) in most divers. This represents a PPN2 of ~3.16 using air. Using EAN32 the PPO2 is only 1.28. As divers we strive not to exceed a PPO2 of 1.4 during the working portion of the dive and 1.6 during deco. The supposition is that we would encounter a toxicity episode long before we suffered the effects of Oxygen narcosis. One additional complication is that we metabolize O2 as well. What effect this has is not known. With so many gas options available these days it is far better to err on this side of safety. Cold has is well known to exacerbate the effects of Narcosis as well. A good mix for this dive is 30/30 and run an air table. The average depth of this dive is actually around 70'(21m). That gives us 50min NDL. I normally do the trip out and back in 7 minutes each way which allows lots of play time on this wreck itself. I as well switch to a 70'(21m) bottle (50%) as soon as I hit 70'(21m) on the way back in.

I caution the folks that are doing this dive. The guys that I dive with such as Tom R.,Kevin R., Vlada and Tom W. Doug and James P. are very experienced divers that all have overhead environment training and are using the correct equipment. Theyas well have a SAC rate of around .5cf(16L) which allows them the bottom times that we get. However trivial we make this dive sound it is a very advanced dive at the best of times and an exceptionally dangerous dive this time of year when we are penetrating under the ice in 32degree water. Please do not even attempt this dive unless you are properly trained and have the right equipment/team to do the dive properly. I applaud Artw who gave a very honest and accurate description of his dive and the lessons learned from it. Were we all so honest with ourselves we would like have far fewer deaths in this sport.

Safe dives,

Dan

 

[teamplayer]

The guys that I dive with such as Tom R.,Kevin R., Vlada and Tom W. Doug and James P. are very experienced divers that all have overhead environment training and are using the correct equipment. Theyas well have a SAC rate of around .5cf(16L) which allows them the bottom times that we get. However trivial we make this dive sound it is a very advanced dive at the best of times and an exceptionally dangerous dive this time of year when we are penetrating under the ice in 32degree water. Please do not even attempt this dive unless you are properly trained and have the right equipment/team to do the dive properly. I applaud Artw who gave a very honest and accurate description of his dive and the lessons learned from it. Were we all so honest with ourselves we would like have far fewer deaths in this sport.
Dan

I don't understand(so help me out please), I was told at a dive shop that the kingshorn may be the deep or wreck dive for my AOW course I am planning to take this summer. Is it really a very advanced dive at the best of times ?

If it is an exceptionally dangerous dive this time of year why risk dieing doing it? As a newbie am I missing the importance of bragging rights?

What course and agency condones and certifys such a dive style?

Can I ask what the correct equipment is?

thanks,
templayer

 

[Col.Cluster]

I don't understand(so help me out please), I was told at a dive shop that the kingshorn may be the deep or wreck dive for my AOW course I am planning to take this summer. Is it really a very advanced dive at the best of times ?

If it is an exceptionally dangerous dive this time of year why risk dieing doing it? As a newbie am I missing the importance of bragging rights?

What course and agency condones and certifys such a dive style?

Can I ask what the correct equipment is?

thanks,
templayer

That would be a boat dive not a shore dive. The dive can be exceptionally dangerous from shore when done with out the correct training or equipment. This has nothing to do with bragging rights. We train here.

Come by the shop and introduce yourself and we can talk about the rest. I do not believe you are new to diving. Show us all that you are real and we would gladly sit down and chat over a coffee. Please forgive the scepticism but I see that you have done nothing except attempting to trash the boys at KDS and NTD in the total of 4 posts to date. If you really want to know come out and see us.

All the best
CC

 

[teamplayer]

That would be a boat dive not a shore dive. The dive can be exceptionally dangerous from shore when done with out the correct training or equipment. This has nothing to do with bragging rights. We train here.

Come by the shop and introduce yourself and we can talk about the rest. I do not believe you are new to diving.

All the best
CC

Yes, the course is to be from a charter, thats what I was missing. but if it is a learning dive from a boat( easier) why take all the risks at this time of year? What am I missing if its not for bragging rights. Why do it? And I can't believe its to save the price of the boat ride.

I'd love to drop by your shop, thanks for the invite, i'll jump at the chance to meet some of the big boys. I live in south ottawa, where is your shop? But then again why can't I ask stupid(I guess) questions from the people that seem very smart ,here?

Sorry but what have i missed?

teamplayer
ps thanks for not believing i am new to diving, I'll take that as my reading of scubaboard is paying off

 

[DS1]

why take all the risks at this time of year? What am I missing if its not for bragging rights. Why do it? And I can't believe its to save the price of the boat ride.

There is no bragging rights involved in doing this dives i dont think there is any place for bragging rights in diving at ALL !!


There is no charters this time of season cause as you might notice its winter and there is some ice ... People choose to do this dive cause its a decent wreck close to shores and its a good place to keep diving over the winter and practice some skills for several reason and with the right skills and equipment this dive can be done pretty safely

As for the risk well its just like cave diving there is extra risks involved but some enjoy it better than wreck diving (i would) Ice diving is a really nice thing to see and fun to do and besides diving in general is a risk but they can be reduced with skills and a good buddy (s)

In the summer you cant really dive that area from shore (rockport wall, kinghorn) since the boat ramp is being used as well as the 1000 island boat cruise starts from there and with the restaurant its a pretty busy area in the summer

THANKS !!! and i hope people dont attempt this dive from shore without the proper training and skills

 

[artw]

Can the Kinghorn be dove safely from shore, assuming the following criteria are met - warmer water, no ice, boat ramp open (still off season) sufficient back gas, EAN, and a redundant air source (either H valve or slung AL40 with some sort of EAN in it)

I would like to do this dive again - but would like to know if I can do it with my current training and experience. (no deco no overhead, ean up to 40%)