Know CPR, it always comes in handy

[Dot Wethington]

Back in 2001, I had just lost my job of 2.5 years as a nurse at a hospital, and I was feeling pretty useless. I went diving with my boyfriend and another friend and as we were gearing up for a beach entry under a bridge, I hear "Does anyone know CPR?" I'm thinking it's some kind of joke, but I see a child laying on the beach and someone is doing the compressions and the breaths, and I'm thinking, "Oh God, the only time I did CPR was to a cat-- and it didn't make it" Luckily when I arrived the boy opened his eyes really wide, and I quickly turned him over to vomit. His carotid pulse was going a mile a minute and he was panicking. The paramedics arrived within minutes and took the boy to the hospital. His father was weeping and I told him the boy was fine. I told the mother who didn't seem phased--possibly shock, I don't know, but me being the patient teaching nurse that I constantly am, instructed her to get the kid to the local YMCA and learn to swim. Too many kids and adults are near water and have no idea of the hazards of being in the water and not knowing about swimming. The YMCA and Red Cross will direct people to low cost and sometimes free courses in water safety. In Florida, it's a 'must'. Well I thank the guy who jump started the kid and I felt good knowing that I didn't forget CPR, (This is a great course for ages 8-80). I felt a little more confident that day, but man, what a scare!!! We continued our dive, but my adrenaline was kicked in for awhile and I felt like I had had 12 cups of coffee that day. For all that read this, ask yourself-- could you save someone from choking, drowning, or heart attack??? A simple course can change someone's destiny for the good. Think about it.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

For all that read this, ask yourself-- could you save someone from choking, drowning, or heart attack??? A simple course can change someone's destiny for the good. Think about it.

As a First Aid/CPR instructor for many years, I can attest to its usefulness. I once taught a First Aid/CPR class to some loggers, with the CPR portion taught first. We then broke for lunch, and I had scheduled the first aid portion after lunch. Several of the loggers went to lunch at a small cafe, and during lunch were able to interviene with a heart attack victim, give him CPR, and in the process save his life.

If you don't know CPR, please give it a go, and learn. If you have learned, learn how to teach it to others. The life that they save...may be yours.

SeaRat

 

[scbababe]

If you don't know CPR, please give it a go, and learn. If you have learned, learn how to teach it to others. The life that they save...may be yours.

SeaRat

I truly agree with this one, I got certified in CPR after I had my first brush with a diving related injury while bubble watching on a dive boat. I was about 7mnths. pregnant and accompanying my hubby (who had just completed his Rescue Diver Cert.) on a 2 tank dive off Key Largo with his instructor and a few other divers. After the first dive all the divers got on the boat and started assembling their gear for the 2nd dive. When one of the divers starting feeling faint. We told him to lie down until he felt better. He said his stomach was bothering him. The instructor laughingly suggested it must have been all the Burger King he had that a.m... The instructor did remind us that this has happened before with this diver. Because it was a 30 ft dive and they had done everything right the instructor did not seem worried. The guy started complaining about having a severe headache and that he could not see. At that point my husband stepped in and started asking the diver more questions. It turned out the guy had tunnel vision, and was having trouble breathing. We applied oxygen and called in the paramedics. It so happens the guy had a condition involving inner ear pressure on the brain and was DCS symptomatic, and could have died. He underwent 2 days in the chamber.

That day I looked at my hubby in a whole new light. I asked how he felt?... Had he not reacted in the manner he did, that guy would not be alive today. His repply 2 me was, I'm just glad I was there and knew what to ask him. Paramedics did the rest.

It also got me thinking about getting my Rescue Diver certification for our own safety. Immediately doubt set in. It is a big responsibility to carry this knowledge. Surely I wouldn't want any ones life to depend on me. (Not to mention the legalities involved when you assist someone in these types of situations) But to be certified in knowing how to do something, holds you somehow responsible if it happens infront of you. Doesn't it?

 

[aa777888]

scbababe,

You've got a case of perception vs. reality. If you've mastered diving even at a basic level you've got more than what it takes to save someone's life (above water, anyway, which is the only part I know about, not being a rescue diver).

Take it from this 8 year veteran of the ambulance world: pre-hospital medicine is not rocket science. At the basic life support level (BLS) we don't diagnose, we treat symptomatically according to a "cookbook", and when in doubt, get 'em to the hospital pronto.

It's really hard to screw up CPR. O2 administration is easy, and you can't kill anyone with it, but you might if you withhold it. Bleeding control is also easy (unless you can't stand the sight of blood :11: )

Spinal stabilization might be the most difficult skill to master as it requires teamwork and a bit of dexterity, but again it's not rocket science.

Perhaps the most daunting aspect of the whole thing is having the guts to take charge and take action. More than once I've come upon the scene of a roadside accident to find many people wanting to help, but paralyzed by any number of fears, fears perhaps similar to some of your concerns. With just a bit of training you'll see that it's not as daunting as all that. You won't worry about "What if I do something wrong". It's not that complicated. The worse shape someone is in the simpler it gets. If someone is in serious trouble it is only your inaction that might hurt them.

It's the "maybe" cases that are tough. If someone looks like they are headed for trouble (as in your example), it just takes the guts to make the conservative call. What's the worst that can happen--someone's vacation day, morning, whatever, will be wasted in some emergency room? But I'd rather owe somebody an apology for a making a big deal out of it rather than live with the opposite potential outcome.

The responsibility is not that awesome. I would encourage you to get the training and be ready for "the big one" (which will probably, and thankfully, never come, BTW

aa

 

[dnhill]

It also got me thinking about getting my Rescue Diver certification for our own safety. Immediately doubt set in. It is a big responsibility to carry this knowledge. Surely I wouldn't want any ones life to depend on me. (Not to mention the legalities involved when you assist someone in these types of situations) But to be certified in knowing how to do something, holds you somehow responsible if it happens infront of you. Doesn't it?

I can't speak of states other than Texas, but you are under no legal obligation to use rescue skills (except perhaps with your buddy or if you are in a leadership position) and cannot be liable for not doing anything. Once a rescue is under way, there is an obligation to continue until other qualified help arrives (the theory is that by beginning the rescue, another qualified rescuer may not stop by to help because there is already help there). That being said, it would be difficult to have knowledge to help someone and not offer it freely in fear of litigation. I understand the legal aspects (I am a RN and a lawyer) but feel that it is my responsibility to help if I can.

It is unfortunately true that even when someone tries to do their best, litigation may ensue. I will personally take that risk even though my nursing training puts me at a higher standard for being sued, because I could not sleep at night if I did not help.

I encourage all who can physically perform CPR to take the class. You never know when a member of your family or a friend may need for someone to provide this skill.

Sorry for the soapbox.

The above is not intended for legal advice. The above pontifications are only my opinions and would suggest anyone with questions regarding liability issues to consult with proper counsel in their location.

dnhill

 

[scbababe]

scbababe,
You've got a case of perception vs. reality. If you've mastered diving even at a basic level you've got more than what it takes to save someone's life (above water, anyway, which is the only part I know about, not being a rescue diver).
aa

When that happened, reality did set in. Remember, the instructor, whom I must say is a Master Scuba Instructor, was present, had witnessed the same symptoms on this individual on a previous dive, and belived it to be due to the guy having to much breakfast! If this instructor, whom I personally know, can misdiagnose someone to that degree, that's when my doubts about rescue training set in.


dnhill: I could relate to your feelings regarding seeing someone in a situation and not doing anything about it. My mother is a medical professional and has been for over 20 years. So I was brought up respecting these very delicate situations. In FL, if you see someone in peril and you can help, but don't do anything you could be held liable.
Go figure..???

 

[H2Andy]

There is no "affirmative" duty to help someone in Florida. In other words,
you don't have to help someone in trouble. You can walk by, see someone drowning,
do nothing, let them drown, and you would be perfectly within your rights (assuming
you don't have another duty to them -- i.e. you're not a police officer or an EMT).

Affirmative duty under Florida law is only imposed under very limited circumstances. Generally, the duty is imposed as follows:

1. When you undertake to act for the protection of another person (in other words, you decided to help), or take control over the circumstances which determine the other person’s safety (This assumption of duty may be limited, and liability may be imposed only where your conduct has caused distinct or increased harm)

2. When you have a legally recognized (special) relationship with the person who may be harmed, or a person whose conduct may injure the endangered person

3. When you create a foreseeable, non-obvious risk that endangers another person.

In fact, Florida has enacted a "Good Samaritan" law (as have many states) which
tries to limit the liability of someone who stops and helps someone in danger.
The law is designed to "encourage" people to help (since there is no duty to do so).

Basically, it goes like this:

The Good Samaritan law ("GSL") extends limited protection from liability to persons – including, but not limited to persons licensed to practice medicine – who gratuitously and in good faith render emergency care or treatment

*at the scene of an emergency not taking place within a facility where proper equipment and services are available, or

*in response to a declared public health emergency, or state of emergency declared by the governor, or

*to a participant at an athletic event sponsored by an elementary or secondary school [don't ask me what lobbyist got this in there].

*Protection is extended to hospitals and hospital employees in situations involving sudden and immediate emergencies requiring medical intervention in emergency rooms, or trauma centers, or in situations of declared public health emergencies

*Protection applies only where reasonable care is exercised, under the circumstances, and protections abate once the patient or victim is stabilized


So, as a CPR provider, so long as you excercise reasonable care under the circumstances, the GSL will protect you if you step in to help. Basically do what you are trained to do and you will be fine.

This is not intended as legal advice, but is rather a general
(and necessarily over-simplified) view of this issue. If you need
legal advice, please see a qualified attorney.

 

[Scubaguy62]

When you have a legally recognized (special) relationship with the person who may be harmed, or a person whose conduct may injure the endangered person

Summa cum bubba , one of my law professors explained this to a greater extent; i.e. an off duty lifeguard, or a person who is a certified lifeguard, sees a person drowning in the ocean and chooses to do nothing, despite the fact that he/she is trained for this sort of situation, and if the circumstances are reasonably within the physical capabilities of the lifeguard (iow, within reasonable swimming distance), then the lifeguard also has an affirmative duty to assist.

What Scbababe was referring to was an instance when one of her neighbors was being battered by another individual. Another neighbor witnessed the situation, and refused to help, to avoid getting involved. This lady was arrested for failure to render aid. Was there an affirmative duty to assist? IMO, technically no, as the person being assaulted was likely not in immenent danger of death, but was there a duty to render aid, or in the alternative to call for help? Yes.

Rick

 

[H2Andy]

What Scbababe was referring to was an instance when one of her neighbors was being battered by another individual. Another neighbor witnessed the situation, and refused to help, to avoid getting involved. This lady was arrested for failure to render aid.

you got me on this one (I was talking in the civil context). the issue here is, does a person under FLorida law have a duty to render aid or report when witnessing the commission of a crime?


the answer, as far as i know, is still no.

several bills have been introduced to make it mandatory
that people must report crimes, but i don't think any have
passed. i don't know why your neighbor got arrested, but
i am fairly certain it wasn't for not doing anything.

However, Florida is one of 18 states that require ALL citizens to report suspected child abuse or neglect. Could this be what was going on?

(I am not a criminal attorney but i will call my pals at the
State Attorney's office tomorrow and ask)

 

[H2Andy]

ok, here's the answer from a 10-year veteran at the State Attorney's Office:

question:

[snip] and the question came up as to whether a private citizen in Florida has a duty
to report a crime under way or try to help the victim. [snip]

answer:

in general, NO, other than child abuse or child sexual abuse. under some circumstances, depending on the facts of the individual case, it could possibly be criminal if the failure to act amounted to actually helping. for example, if your friend was at your house and said he had just committed a robbery, you would not be guilty of anything if you did not pick up the phone and report it. but if a cop came to the door and asked you if your friend was in there and you lied and said no, that would be accessory after the fact. or if you furnished a car to help him elude police pursuit or let him store the proceeds of the robbery at your house, likewise.