LCHF or Ketogenic Diet
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Well, I'm late to this party. I just found this thread.
You have acknowledged that your info is from the Bronze Age. Now if you just recognized that there might be newer, better information available. Yes, the Earth really is round!
Point # 1 is an obvious one to discuss. From what I have read, the brain will burn glucose OR it will use ketones for fuel.
Also, if your points were all valid, then all those bodybuilders going low carb and high protein would surely not be getting the results that they do. You absolutely CAN eat high fat, low carb and not just maintain muscle mass but actually increase it.
Again, your body will feed your brain using fat for fuel. If you take in enough fat and protein, your brain and your muscles will be fine.
Carbs stimulate an insulin response. Protein also CAN stimulate an insulin response. Fat does not. It's high density fuel that doesn't do anything to promote insulin resistance.
You can live in ketosis or you can live in glycolysis. Either way, you are living in a "state" of something your whole life. Would you rather live in a state of burning sugar ALL the time, or a state of burning fat most of the time and burning sugar occasionally?
In other words, I agree with your statement, but I think you are not looking at the alternatives correctly. Living in a state of glycolysis your whole life is much more damaging than living in ketosis, which is most of the time, except when you indulge and eat a few slices of pizza.
You have acknowledged that your info is from the Bronze Age. Now if you just recognized that there might be newer, better information available. Yes, the Earth really is round!
Point # 1 is an obvious one to discuss. From what I have read, the brain will burn glucose OR it will use ketones for fuel.
Also, if your points were all valid, then all those bodybuilders going low carb and high protein would surely not be getting the results that they do. You absolutely CAN eat high fat, low carb and not just maintain muscle mass but actually increase it.
Again, your body will feed your brain using fat for fuel. If you take in enough fat and protein, your brain and your muscles will be fine.
Carbs stimulate an insulin response. Protein also CAN stimulate an insulin response. Fat does not. It's high density fuel that doesn't do anything to promote insulin resistance.
You can live in ketosis or you can live in glycolysis. Either way, you are living in a "state" of something your whole life. Would you rather live in a state of burning sugar ALL the time, or a state of burning fat most of the time and burning sugar occasionally?
In other words, I agree with your statement, but I think you are not looking at the alternatives correctly. Living in a state of glycolysis your whole life is much more damaging than living in ketosis, which is most of the time, except when you indulge and eat a few slices of pizza.
To me, the discussions running through this thread all seem to be skirting the elephant in the room.
Either, it's more healthy to be in ketosis (fat-burning metabolism) or it's more healthy to be in glycolysis (sugar-burning metabolism). Or, it's most healthy to spend some time in each.
From what I can tell, it seems to be most healthy to be in ketosis most (or all?) of the time. My intuition says "most" would be best.
And, if you think that it's best to mostly be in ketosis, then the eating plan/lifestyle should be built around that. Which, from what I can tell is not as simple as "eat healthy" or "stay away from processed foods" or "eat real food". I mean, potatoes are "real" food. But, a diet of steak and potatoes, eggs, bacon, and cheese, does not sound healthy to me. On the other hand, if you just swapped broccoli for potatoes, I reckon that diet would be WAAY healthier.
It's not that simple, but, an eating plan that keeps you in ketosis (most of the time) does seem FAIRLY simple. Not that hard once you have a little education and experience.
Sure, you can easily maintain a healthy weight without living in ketosis. But, just because you are maintaining a healthy weight and you are eating 100 - 200 grams of carbs per day, does not necessarily mean that that is the most healthy way you could be eating.
As far as the overall health related to a KD, I can say that it worked for me. A few years ago, I went on a KD. I got a physical, including bloodwork, done right before I started. Then I basically ate only meat and cheese for 2.5 months. Lots of steak, sausage and bacon, along with chicken and the occasional pork chop. I lost 44 # in 9 weeks. Right after that, I got my bloodwork done again. EVERY single category on the chart was vastly improved. I went from a number of things that were marginal to everything being in the "Good" range. Good cholesterol was way up. Bad cholesterol was way down. Blood sugar was better. My blood pressure went from 130/87 to 107/60. Unfortunately (in some ways), about 2 years later, I met the girl that was living next door to my best friend, ended up moving in with her, and that turned into drinking a lot of beer, a lot of the time, which started me back down the Road to Fatness, which is where I am now. And why I just (2 weeks ago) changed my life back to a KD.
Speaking of starting a KD, the Keto "Flu" is real (for some people, anyway) and it can really suck for a few days. But, I learned recently that there is a supplement called Beta-Hydroxybutyrate that you can get/take that is supposed to virtually eliminate that. BHB is one of the ketones your body makes naturally when it breaks down fat for fuel. And, you can buy it in powdered form to take as a dietary supplement while your body is switching from glycolysis to ketosis. Once your body is in ketosis, it will be making its own BHB and you'll be feeling good, and you can stop taking the supplement.
Beta-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB): What it Is & Why It’s The Cleanest Fuel For Your Body
Either, it's more healthy to be in ketosis (fat-burning metabolism) or it's more healthy to be in glycolysis (sugar-burning metabolism). Or, it's most healthy to spend some time in each.
From what I can tell, it seems to be most healthy to be in ketosis most (or all?) of the time. My intuition says "most" would be best.
And, if you think that it's best to mostly be in ketosis, then the eating plan/lifestyle should be built around that. Which, from what I can tell is not as simple as "eat healthy" or "stay away from processed foods" or "eat real food". I mean, potatoes are "real" food. But, a diet of steak and potatoes, eggs, bacon, and cheese, does not sound healthy to me. On the other hand, if you just swapped broccoli for potatoes, I reckon that diet would be WAAY healthier.
It's not that simple, but, an eating plan that keeps you in ketosis (most of the time) does seem FAIRLY simple. Not that hard once you have a little education and experience.
Sure, you can easily maintain a healthy weight without living in ketosis. But, just because you are maintaining a healthy weight and you are eating 100 - 200 grams of carbs per day, does not necessarily mean that that is the most healthy way you could be eating.
As far as the overall health related to a KD, I can say that it worked for me. A few years ago, I went on a KD. I got a physical, including bloodwork, done right before I started. Then I basically ate only meat and cheese for 2.5 months. Lots of steak, sausage and bacon, along with chicken and the occasional pork chop. I lost 44 # in 9 weeks. Right after that, I got my bloodwork done again. EVERY single category on the chart was vastly improved. I went from a number of things that were marginal to everything being in the "Good" range. Good cholesterol was way up. Bad cholesterol was way down. Blood sugar was better. My blood pressure went from 130/87 to 107/60. Unfortunately (in some ways), about 2 years later, I met the girl that was living next door to my best friend, ended up moving in with her, and that turned into drinking a lot of beer, a lot of the time, which started me back down the Road to Fatness, which is where I am now. And why I just (2 weeks ago) changed my life back to a KD.
Speaking of starting a KD, the Keto "Flu" is real (for some people, anyway) and it can really suck for a few days. But, I learned recently that there is a supplement called Beta-Hydroxybutyrate that you can get/take that is supposed to virtually eliminate that. BHB is one of the ketones your body makes naturally when it breaks down fat for fuel. And, you can buy it in powdered form to take as a dietary supplement while your body is switching from glycolysis to ketosis. Once your body is in ketosis, it will be making its own BHB and you'll be feeling good, and you can stop taking the supplement.
Beta-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB): What it Is & Why It’s The Cleanest Fuel For Your Body
Anyway, what really lead me to this thread was some info I heard about recently.
There seems to be a theory with growing evidentiary support that a Ketogenic Diet (KD) can yield significant reductions in the chance of getting CNS Oxygen Toxicity.
Ketogenic diet for high partial pressure oxygen diving. - PubMed - NCBI
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-20933-w
News: ONR-Supported Research Fights Oxygen Toxicity in Navy Divers - Office of Naval Research
My lay interpretation of what I read is that a KD produces more antioxidants in the body and that counterbalances the oxidation damage that results from breathing too high a partial pressure of Oxygen.
I first heard about it from a dive buddy of mine who heard about it from a guy that was on the same dive boat as my buddy for a few days of diving down in FL (I was not on that trip). My friend said that this guy claimed he'd been living on a KD for 20 years or something and he was diving pure O2 the whole time they were on that boat for that week, with never an issue.
Imagine that! Diving with pure O2 would mean you would never have a deco obligation. Ever.
I'm just wondering if any of y'all know any more about this. I'm NOT advocating the idea of exceeding O2 limits! I'm just very curious to learn more about how a Ketogenic Diet might specifically benefit divers.
There seems to be a theory with growing evidentiary support that a Ketogenic Diet (KD) can yield significant reductions in the chance of getting CNS Oxygen Toxicity.
Ketogenic diet for high partial pressure oxygen diving. - PubMed - NCBI
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-20933-w
News: ONR-Supported Research Fights Oxygen Toxicity in Navy Divers - Office of Naval Research
My lay interpretation of what I read is that a KD produces more antioxidants in the body and that counterbalances the oxidation damage that results from breathing too high a partial pressure of Oxygen.
I first heard about it from a dive buddy of mine who heard about it from a guy that was on the same dive boat as my buddy for a few days of diving down in FL (I was not on that trip). My friend said that this guy claimed he'd been living on a KD for 20 years or something and he was diving pure O2 the whole time they were on that boat for that week, with never an issue.
Imagine that! Diving with pure O2 would mean you would never have a deco obligation. Ever.
I'm just wondering if any of y'all know any more about this. I'm NOT advocating the idea of exceeding O2 limits! I'm just very curious to learn more about how a Ketogenic Diet might specifically benefit divers.
Mrs. B
Contributor
You want to be metabolically flexible and switch between the two pathways, which you can not do unless you burn fat regularly.
Do you know of any way to do that (burn fat) other than cutting carbs (to 20g or so per day) and, basically, just waiting out the 3 days or so until your body switches into ketosis? In a healthy way, I mean. I'm pretty sure you can burn fat with just hard exercise, but I think by the time you get to that point (presuming your body is in a state of glycolysis) you are also breaking down muscle tissue as well.
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mcohen1021
Contributor
So, my diet started out as a KD, but I stopped testing to see if I was in ketosis. What I found is that at the beginning, yes I was in ketosis… As I got further into it, I was dropping weight quickly, but the level of ketosis was significantly down. It got to where I was at a “trace” or .none…”
I saw a video a while back that said your body could burn the ketones faster than it can produce them, and you’re still in ketosis but not evident in a pee strip test.
Do you agree with that?
I just don't see much difference between a KD and Adkins.
I saw a video a while back that said your body could burn the ketones faster than it can produce them, and you’re still in ketosis but not evident in a pee strip test.
Do you agree with that?
I just don't see much difference between a KD and Adkins.
Last edited:
mcohen1021
Contributor
I started mine with a 2 day keto fast – 2days of green drink and avacados. That jump starts you into ketosis. As to your hard exercise comment – there is NOTHING you can do workout wise to offset the cookies, donuts at the office and ding dongs you intake. Nothing… Even 8 hours of working out per day won’t do it.
Edit: BTW - switching between the 2 is not easy. I made a decision to stay on KD/Adkins and not go back to carbs
Mrs. B
Contributor
The main way it benefits you (as a diver) is that you do not have the "crashes" when you need to eat.
Your fat burning pathway seamlessly kicks in and it is a more even way to supply fuel to the brain.
Something newer than keto dieting is intermittent fasting (IF) where commonly people eat inside an 8-10 hour window which also keeps insulin spikes down and forces you to burn fat alternately.
It really is true that most Americans insulin levels are just too high...metabolic syndrome eventually gets most people as a function of age.
This does not need to happen. If your fasting insulin levels are not ideal, better to do a little testing and get on that sooner rather than later.
Don't forget what a big role muscle mass plays, given the person. Skeletal muscle mass functions as glucose sumps sucking the glucose out of the bloodstream where it does most of the damage to endolthial lining.
Your fat burning pathway seamlessly kicks in and it is a more even way to supply fuel to the brain.
Something newer than keto dieting is intermittent fasting (IF) where commonly people eat inside an 8-10 hour window which also keeps insulin spikes down and forces you to burn fat alternately.
It really is true that most Americans insulin levels are just too high...metabolic syndrome eventually gets most people as a function of age.
This does not need to happen. If your fasting insulin levels are not ideal, better to do a little testing and get on that sooner rather than later.
Don't forget what a big role muscle mass plays, given the person. Skeletal muscle mass functions as glucose sumps sucking the glucose out of the bloodstream where it does most of the damage to endolthial lining.
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