LDS or Internet

[Diverdoris]

If you purchase all your equipment on line, there won't be a local dive shop to service gear.

Consider this, YOU own a business (construction, retail, car manufacture, whatever) and more then 50% of your business moved to another country, what would you do? Raise prices, reduce staff, or close the business? If you don’t think buying your equipment on line, from a shop or dealer that is across the country will have any effect on you, look around. We have business closing, jobs eliminated, because we don’t do business with ourselves, we buy cheap, on line, overseas. I would think that anyone that works in America could see that, but still we don’t support our local economy.

 

[soso]

I've used both as well. Diving can be quite an expensive hobby. I'm a comparative shopper. I will check out the LDS & the internet to get a handle on a fair price. If my LDS is pretty competitive (and most time they are) then I opt for the LDS -- save time, shipping etc. I also use the LDS for things that need to fit or have service (regs, bc, computer). I've found the LDS (I have 2 favorites) I use have wonderful people willing to share info. and tips (can't get that from the internet) and share the sport they love. By the same token, I find it fun to "shop" around on the internet and order online. My equipment is about 1/2 and 1/2. I think there is aplace and need for both - it is not an either / or.

 

[redacted]

If you purchase all your equipment on line, there won't be a local dive shop to service gear.

Consider this, YOU own a business (construction, retail, car manufacture, whatever) and more then 50% of your business moved to another country, what would you do? Raise prices, reduce staff, or close the business? If you don’t think buying your equipment on line, from a shop or dealer that is across the country will have any effect on you, look around. We have business closing, jobs eliminated, because we don’t do business with ourselves, we buy cheap, on line, overseas. I would think that anyone that works in America could see that, but still we don’t support our local economy.

So, does all the gear you sell have a label that says "Made in Holland, MI"? Do you sell gear made only in the US? Do you only sponsor trips to US destinations?

The primary "local economy" that most of us are focused on is probably our back pockets. I suspect that you are no diffcerent.

 

[Vtdiver2]

We purchased all of our equipment online through a company in Florida. We have had no issues and received warranty's as well and yes the prices were excellent compared to the LDS. I use our LDS to purchase "some trips" and simple items. I like my LDS however I am going to shop for the best deal and take it. I am not going to pay my LDS's light bill just to keep them around. The old air fill addage is BS..so let me see ..I will pay 75.00 more then what I can get on the internet because I need them for airfills? Do you know how funny that sounds? My LDS treats everyone very well including myself and they are aware that I did not buy my equipment with their shop. If they do not treat everyone well regardless of where their equipment was purchased then yes, their doors need to close. I love my LDS and I have their cell numbers if I need anything after hours also. I dive with most of the employees with my LDS.

Imagine you are a contractor, and you get asked to come give an estimate for an addition. You show up at the house, go over their plans, discuss pros and cons of what they want, offer suggestions and improvements, and then tell them you'll get back to them with prices. You go back to your office to do your homework ( call suppliers and get prices, give them a small mark up, figure out your labor) and then call them with your price.
Later you find out they just used you to get some ideas on prices and what and how to do the addition, have bought their own materials at Home Depot and are having their brother -in-law who had banged nails before help them throw it together. Why do you know this? Because they called you to come fix a few mouldings and fix a leak on a faucet they can't seem to get.
This crap happens all the time at a LDS. Working part time at one, I've seen it. We joke about it. People come in, get all kinds of info(sometimes writing it all down) and then leave to go buy it online. Is it right? I'm not sure, but what did I just get for spending an hour explaining the differences in equipment? Nothing. Leisure Pro and the rest of the internet dealers should pay the LDS's a commision, because in many cases, LDSs do their job for them, fitting wetsuits etc, just to lose the sale to them because they can set their prices lower due to not having" to pay their light bill" or electricity.
The"old air addage" is not BS, LDS's don't make a dime on airfills, they make it on the gadgets you decide to buy online.
I hope I'm wrong, but the diving industry is going to get more expensive when all the internet dealers put the LDSs out of business, and diving clubs are going to have to buy, maintain and insure for liability their own compressors, just so their members can get an airfill. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.
BTW Steve, if you're spending $75 more for a piece of equipment, do some homework. Is the LDS screwing you, or is the internet deal "just too good to be true"? My LDS is very competitive against the internet dealers, and in one case, I've seen that it beat a posted internet price by $30. It's true, and if you want details, PM me.
I'm hoping this whole thread doesn't get nasty, and into a "us versus them" kinda thing. I think the blame for this whole issue lies with the manufacturers, as they tell the LSDs what they have to charge, tell them they have to buy thousands of dollars worth of gear in order to be a dealer, tell the LDS that they won't have to compete on an uneven playing field( against an internet dealer who doesn't have to pay rent, lights etc, and drops their prices below what the manufacturers allow) but doesn't enforce their policies. In the end, many LDS can't compete and go out of business.
I'd like to see a thread of how many LDSs have gone out of business in the past couple of years, how has it affected your diving ( as in # of dives per year), and how far do you have to drive to get an airfill now? In fact, I'll go start it now. Should be interesting.
Just my 2 cents,
Chris

 

[usnadiver03]

I recently purchased an entire SCUBA package from www.scuba.com. I bought everything from my BC to my wetsuit. I had to return my booties because they were too small, but the turnaround was amazing, and no questioned asked. I also first bought a dive computer without a compass, and after some thought (30 days later) decided I wanted the one with it. I sent the entire first and second stage back, and once again, they switched it out for me, calibrated it, and no questions asked.

So that is the service, let's not even start talking about the fact that I saved about $900 over what my LDS could do.

Happy diving!

 

[Hoosier]

I agree with you. It is too sad to hear this kind of statements. It is a typical mid-west narrow mind. Almost 90 percent of Wal-mart product is "made in china."

What if all Wal-mart product is only made in U.S.? Its impact will be much much worse than the current outrageous gas price.

So, does all the gear you sell have a label that says "Made in Holland, MI"? Do you sell gear made only in the US? Do you only sponsor trips to US destinations?

The primary "local economy" that most of us are focused on is probably our back pockets. I suspect that you are no diffcerent.

 

[stevetim]

Great, shop amazon for your tanks fills.

My point is this, if you don't support at least one local dive shop then you're sol for fills and many other things. I'm fortunate that most local divers support the shop I instruct for. We treat loyal customers as though we appreciate them.

The internet shoppers? We fill their tanks of course, last. We repair their equipment, last and of course without discounts. We even will assemble their LP equipment for them and test it, for a price and of course they get to dive in our pool, if they pay.

We love them all, but we appreciate the loyal customers.

Well, in essence you are killing your own business . Why not give the internet shoppers great service and try to get them to buy some stuff from you instead of painting a dark broad stroke across them and opening yourself up to IDS patrons' blacklist. That's just basic business skills meant to introduce growth.

 

[Hoosier]

As you guys read, the major arguments from LDS are how to get air fill and secure the maintenance.

1. What if to buy the gear by internet offsets the self-fill station cost compared to the price at LDS? You know that many divers are getting their own fill station.
The compressor is getting compact design and the price is getting lower over time.
2. What if the travel cost is getting higher due to the gasoline price?
3. What if there are many qualified service technicians on the internet? They are already providing the door to door service and lower charge without any hassles. There are already many dive businesses that provide the tech services by mail.
4. What if the new regulator doesn't require much maintenance by extending the service interval?
5. What if there are some instructors who only provide the teaching without giving the pressure on gear buying? We have already had two dive shops only for the teaching, not gear selling.

Are you already to survive in these coming situations? You don’t know that you can change the market by yourself.

===================================================================
Originally Posted by Al Mialkovsky
Great, shop amazon for your tanks fills.

My point is this, if you don't support at least one local dive shop then you're sol for fills and many other things. I'm fortunate that most local divers support the shop I instruct for. We treat loyal customers as though we appreciate them.

The internet shoppers? We fill their tanks of course, last. We repair their equipment, last and of course without discounts. We even will assemble their LP equipment for them and test it, for a price and of course they get to dive in our pool, if they pay.

We love them all, but we appreciate the loyal customers.

 

[diver04]

First let me say that I believe in supporting my LDS, however there are an increasing number of internet scuba dealers popping up. They offer warranties and very good prices. Has anyone had any experiences with internet scuba dealers good or bad?

I have bought a lot of my equipment from my LDS, especially critical stuff like regulators and cylinders, etc. But I've also gotten some good deals on accessory items, and even a great deal on my BCD from the internet, i.e. e-bay. One on-line shop that I had positive dealings with via e-bay also has their own web site - they're called Scuba-Market U.S.A. and their web address is www.scuba-market.com . I guess in summary, I do believe in supporting my LDS, and feel much better buying key items there. But a penny saved is a penny earned, and if you can find a good price on a light or a pair of boots on-line, what're you gonna do?

 

[Hunter]

Chris, I feel that you are dead right. Local dive shops have a ton of money tied up in those compressors, pools, stock, boats, etc... All this just to provide an opprotunity for the public to get into & stay into diving. Not to mention the poor person that you spent 1 hour with picking their brain for info and taking their time trying on equipment and such just to leave & buy online. Many cases that person you had happily care for you is paid commision. Guess how long they will be happy with you? I too have bought stuff online when I thought my local dive shop didn't carry an item. Many times just because it is not kept in stock doesn't mean they can't get it. I just personally feel better about looking at the person who I choose to dive with, purchase my gear from, and know that the gear that I have is still very servicable and they are more than fimiliar with it. All gear is not created equal. Just because it looks to be a great deal, you better check further. A friend of mine just bought a new regulator on line that evidently has been on a shelf for awhile. He took it in for service and replacement parts aren't even available for it. It was checked out by the techs but not certified.

My advise, get to know your local dive shop personell. Go dive with them. If there is something that you are shopping for, tell them what you have found and see what they can do for you. You might be surprised!

Imagine you are a contractor, and you get asked to come give an estimate for an addition. You show up at the house, go over their plans, discuss pros and cons of what they want, offer suggestions and improvements, and then tell them you'll get back to them with prices. You go back to your office to do your homework ( call suppliers and get prices, give them a small mark up, figure out your labor) and then call them with your price.
Later you find out they just used you to get some ideas on prices and what and how to do the addition, have bought their own materials at Home Depot and are having their brother -in-law who had banged nails before help them throw it together. Why do you know this? Because they called you to come fix a few mouldings and fix a leak on a faucet they can't seem to get.
This crap happens all the time at a LDS. Working part time at one, I've seen it. We joke about it. People come in, get all kinds of info(sometimes writing it all down) and then leave to go buy it online. Is it right? I'm not sure, but what did I just get for spending an hour explaining the differences in equipment? Nothing. Leisure Pro and the rest of the internet dealers should pay the LDS's a commision, because in many cases, LDSs do their job for them, fitting wetsuits etc, just to lose the sale to them because they can set their prices lower due to not having" to pay their light bill" or electricity.
The"old air addage" is not BS, LDS's don't make a dime on airfills, they make it on the gadgets you decide to buy online.
I hope I'm wrong, but the diving industry is going to get more expensive when all the internet dealers put the LDSs out of business, and diving clubs are going to have to buy, maintain and insure for liability their own compressors, just so their members can get an airfill. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.
BTW Steve, if you're spending $75 more for a piece of equipment, do some homework. Is the LDS screwing you, or is the internet deal "just too good to be true"? My LDS is very competitive against the internet dealers, and in one case, I've seen that it beat a posted internet price by $30. It's true, and if you want details, PM me.
I'm hoping this whole thread doesn't get nasty, and into a "us versus them" kinda thing. I think the blame for this whole issue lies with the manufacturers, as they tell the LSDs what they have to charge, tell them they have to buy thousands of dollars worth of gear in order to be a dealer, tell the LDS that they won't have to compete on an uneven playing field( against an internet dealer who doesn't have to pay rent, lights etc, and drops their prices below what the manufacturers allow) but doesn't enforce their policies. In the end, many LDS can't compete and go out of business.
I'd like to see a thread of how many LDSs have gone out of business in the past couple of years, how has it affected your diving ( as in # of dives per year), and how far do you have to drive to get an airfill now? In fact, I'll go start it now. Should be interesting.
Just my 2 cents,
Chris