LDS Scams

[Genesis]

I just got back with my g/f buying a new car.

They tried the usual car dealer games. We put a stop to it, and she has a new car, at $100 over invoice - exactly what she intended to spend, and a fair profit for the dealer besides.

What did he TRY to get originally? Oh, about another $3,000.

And even once we had a "deal", there was an attempt to grab another $250.

In the end, we got the deal we wanted, and he sold the car. Everyone's happy, right? I'd hope so.

How come its "unreasonable" to negotiate the same way for any other major purchase?

 

[Pez de Diablo]

On the subject of PSI training, does anyone know why it's so expensive? Are there any other alternatives?

Ben

In Calgary you can take the course for $200.00 cdn. Cheaper if you work for a dive shop or are an instructor.

 

[OneBrightGator]

In Calgary you can take the course for $200.00 cdn. Cheaper if you work for a dive shop or are an instructor.

I think the commute would do me in, but thanks

Ben

 

[grazie42]

Originally Posted by gxdoyle: Just out of interest, has anyone ever been into the LDS, been treated respectfully, given a great deal, or helped out of a jam at the last minute?

I bought my drysuit on the net but still got a decent deal on a drysuit course, drygloves and some other bits and pieces (of course I didn´t go into the shop and have him spend an hour telling me about the ins and outs of drysuits first either).

The worst "scam" thats happened to me is not getting my tanks filled completely. IMHO opinion this is far worse than charging my twice as much for the fill ´cause it detracts from a dive I´ve spent money and effort to make possible (a long drive and an excursion with a boat). If I fill a 300BAR tank I expect to get 300 in it. I know that this means that the tank has to be "topped" but unless I´m in a hurry, a less then capacity airfill, is just bad service IMO.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The worst "scam" thats happened to me is not getting my tanks filled completely. IMHO opinion this is far worse than charging my twice as much for the fill ´cause it detracts from a dive I´ve spent money and effort to make possible (a long drive and an excursion with a boat). If I fill a 300BAR tank I expect to get 300 in it. I know that this means that the tank has to be "topped" but unless I´m in a hurry, a less then capacity airfill, is just bad service IMO.

It's only a scam if they're chargng you by the cubic foot and charge you for more than what you received. You could argue that they should charge by volume I guess but I've never seen any one do it for air.

Arounf here you'll pay the same to fill an 80 cu ft tank or a 63 cu ft tank. So, if you own an 80 and get a little less than 80 in it you still made out better than some one with a 63.

Of course you also pay the same whether the tank starts out empty or half full.

As you pointed out, in order to get the tank full it either needs to be overfilled or it must be topped after cooling one or more times. If you have the time to hange around while the tank cools and want it right to the top you should let them know.

With my own tanks, I fill em slow and over shoot just a little and don't worry about it. If the water's cold the pressure drops way down anyway.

 

[grazie42]

Originally Posted by MikeFerrara
It's only a scam if they're chargng you by the cubic foot and charge you for more than what you received. You could argue that they should charge by volume I guess but I've never seen any one do it for air.

Actually it´s still as scam as they´ve set a fixed price for a fill regardless (as you pointed out) of the volume of the tank to be filled. That means that any tank, that is less then filled to spec (ie 200/300 BAR), regardless of volume isn´t filled. Since it´s not filled you are getting less then promised.

If you don´t wait for the DS to "top" the tank, then suit yourself, you´ll get as much gas as you "wanted" (and for a lot of dives you don´t really need a filled tank. And I agree that if it is important you should give them special notice. But on those occasions when you do need a full tank, getting any less is really frustrating and leads to a much greater loss then the monetary cost of a fill and hence a "scam" that is much worse than the money involved might indicate.

 

[cornfed]

Don't you check the pressure before paying for the tank?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Actually it´s still as scam as they´ve set a fixed price for a fill regardless (as you pointed out) of the volume of the tank to be filled. That means that any tank, that is less then filled to spec (ie 200/300 BAR), regardless of volume isn´t filled. Since it´s not filled you are getting less then promised.

If you don´t wait for the DS to "top" the tank, then suit yourself, you´ll get as much gas as you "wanted" (and for a lot of dives you don´t really need a filled tank. And I agree that if it is important you should give them special notice. But on those occasions when you do need a full tank, getting any less is really frustrating and leads to a much greater loss then the monetary cost of a fill and hence a "scam" that is much worse than the money involved might indicate.

Are you saying that you asked them to retop the tank and they refused?

I still wouldn't call it a scam. I would say that it's one of those irritating things that physics throws at us though because it makes no sense to state pressure in the tank without stating temperature.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The worst "scam" thats happened to me is not getting my tanks filled completely. IMHO opinion this is far worse than charging my twice as much for the fill ´cause it detracts from a dive I´ve spent money and effort to make possible (a long drive and an excursion with a boat). If I fill a 300BAR tank I expect to get 300 in it. I know that this means that the tank has to be "topped" but unless I´m in a hurry, a less then capacity airfill, is just bad service IMO.

This is really a common complaint,and it's very easy for you to control the situation. I usually fill my own cylinders ... but on those occasions when I don't, I always ask to borrow the shop's pressure gauge and check the pressure in the cylinder before leaving the store. If it's not to my liking, I always ask them to top my cylinder. I have never had anyone refuse to do so.

As you noted, often you really don't need those last few psi (or bar) of pressure ... but on those special occasions when you want all the air your cylinder can hold, it's easy for you to check them yourself prior to leaving the shop ... and I encourage everyone to do so.

I don't see this as a scam so much as a potential issue of quality control on the shop's part ... if you're leaving your cylinders long enough for them to cool properly. In that case they should be topping them off when you come in to pick them up. If you're not leaving your cylinders long enough (like overnight) for them to cool properly before being topped, then it's not the shop's fault they're not as full as you'd like them to be.

I would not fault a shop for refusing to "overfill" a cylinder so it can cool to the cylinder's working pressure ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rick Murchison]

When I pulled this thread after about three pages of whining, I felt it had no positive value to the diving community. We put it back up (sans my comments) and I see that after nine more pages of whining I haven't changed my mind.
Sheeeeesh!
I'm goin' divin'.
Rick