LDS - They have a bad attitude.

[redacted]

The flip side of that coin is customers are also free to make their own rules. The nice thing about having a shop that behaves as this one does or badly in other ways is they do make a great "dressing room". But it is a shame when customers don't at least give him a chance to be competitive, unless they already know by reputation that he will not be and would sooner avoid the BS.

Depends on your definition of valid. Business owners are free to set their own rules, for the most part. It may not be a smart way to run a business ... and it may cost them customers ... but it's still their choice.

We have a shop in our area who has asked several divers to leave his shop and not return because he found out they were buying stuff on the Internet. Personally, I don't think it's a smart way to run a business ... but it's his business, and his call how to run it. I know quite a few people who are incredibly loyal to that particular shop. I know an almost equal number of people who won't go near the place. Bottom line is that he's decided to pick and choose who he does business with ... which as a business owner is his right to do.

Maybe if people would quit using shops as "dressing rooms" to go get all the right information they needed to make their Internet purchases, things like this would happen less. You can fault the shop owners all you like, but when they spend an hour or more of their time making sure you've got the information you need to purchase the right gear ... only to find out later that you then purchased it from an Internet site to save some $$ ... then they have a justification for treating you like you're wasting their time (because you are).

Sometimes it falls back on the customer. Using a dive shop for sizing information when you know you're gonna purchase from an Internet site ain't cool ... but a lot of people do it anyway. So in that respect, there's two sides of this story that need to be examined. Customer relations is a two-way proposition ... and the customer ain't always right ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The flip side of that coin is customers are also free to make their own rules. The nice thing about having a shop that behaves as this one does or badly in other ways is they do make a great "dressing room". But it is a shame when customers don't at least give him a chance to be competitive, unless they already know by reputation that he will not be and would sooner avoid the BS.

Here's where we disagree. People who use dive shops as "dressing rooms" knowing that they're going to purchase elsewhere lack integrity, to my concern ... and if I were a dive shop owner I wouldn't want those people in my shop either, because all they're doing is using my resources and costing me money.

If you're going to do business with the online retailer, then do your homework some other way. Making your own rules doesn't give you the right to take from others with no intention of giving anything back. That's my definition of "stealing" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

Here's where we disagree. People who use dive shops as "dressing rooms" knowing that they're going to purchase elsewhere lack integrity, to my concern ... and if I were a dive shop owner I wouldn't want those people in my shop either, because all they're doing is using my resources and costing me money.

If you're going to do business with the online retailer, then do your homework some other way. Making your own rules doesn't give you the right to take from others with no intention of giving anything back. That's my definition of "stealing" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

We may not disagree as much as you think. I do agree that using a local shop as a dressing room knowing you will not buy there does reveal an integrity shortcoming. But I don't have the same problem if the customer gives them the opportunity to make the sale. Also, when dealing with shops that lack integrity, like those that treat customers badly or charge excessive prices, I can see bending personal standards a bit.

I don't really see why a customer should shop for dive gear any differently than one would shop for a car or an appliance or any other expensive purchase.

 

[chuck34gboro]

Divers-Supply has local stores. I was in the shop in Marietta last Saturday and spend a few hundred dollars. Internet prices in a local store.

If I were thinking of running a dive shop, I may would consider trying to get a deap with one of the online retailers. I could carry more brands and give more competitive pricing. I'm sure if I were buying enough from an online retailer, I could get a better price from them and increase my margin. And I could show customers first hand the differences between the cheaper and quality gear.

But even with all that, I'd still need knowledgable employees that cared about customer service.

 

[movieflick]

If someone is losing sales to the Internet they either need to work on their price tag or their service.

I can be persuaded to purchase something from a LDS vs the Internet if the LDS has outstanding service. But, If the price is $1500 at the LDS and $900 online.. well I have to purchase online. If you don't see the logic there then you have more money then sense.

If the price is $1100 at the LDS and $900 online but the LDS has extended me outstanding customer service then I am far more likely to purchase at the LDS. And better yet I will always check that dive shop before making other purchases to see where they are at on the price scale or what alternatives they have.

I would never expect to pay the same price at an LDS as the Internet but I need something extra for that premium price tag.

Ultimately my gripe in this thread is meant to be about service. If you do not want to provide good customer service then why be in a customer service business? Whatever your reason is for being rude IMO it is not valid other than a customer being down right rude to you.

 

[ToyZuki9615]

I recently purchased a full set of gear prior to taking my OW class (scheduled for end of April). Prior to visiting any dive shops I spoke with several friends for hours, and researched online quite a bit.

I explained wanting to purchase a full set of gear and not being certified yet (also stated that I had done lots of research). I don't believe any of them heard anything past not certified, because every shop spoke to me like I didn't know anything. Furthermore, not one shop tried to sell me on their OW class, and many didn't even try to set up any type of package deal. One shop even told me that they absolutely will not sell below MSRP, period. Every salesman was very nice and thorough with their explanations.

I really wanted to build a relationship with a LDS, but I am not going to pay $2500-3000 for gear that I can buy from ST for $1000, nor am I prepared to pay $1000 at a LDS for much lower quality gear.

One of the LDS was completely unaware of the current package specials being offered by a company they carried, even though it was on the front page of their website.

When any dispute or question about gear came up I felt like the LDS was trying harder to bad-mouth other companies and manufacturers than support their own.

 

[--tom--]

Here's where we disagree. People who use dive shops as "dressing rooms" knowing that they're going to purchase elsewhere lack integrity, to my concern ... and if I were a dive shop owner I wouldn't want those people in my shop either, because all they're doing is using my resources and costing me money.

If you're going to do business with the online retailer, then do your homework some other way. Making your own rules doesn't give you the right to take from others with no intention of giving anything back. That's my definition of "stealing" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Ah, this little thread dredges up some very old and very bad feelings. I worked a long time in specialty retail (bicycles, not scuba); & while I tried to be the upbeat problem solver, it unfortunate the really poor customers stand out, rather than the 20,000+ great customers.

Like the internet customers (yes, multiple) who bought online and was trying to get a refund from me. Or the people who bought all of the parts elsewhere & wanted a discount on labor because "it was a lot of work and should be discounted". While I appreciate your engineering degree & that you photo-copied the installation instructions for me, the condescension is heard loud and clear, even though I have been working in the trade for longer than you have been alive. Ah, customer warm and fuzzies....

The problem with many small specialty retail establishments is that they are enthusiasts first and business people second. The best front people I had as a retailer were non-enthusiasts. They understood the basics of: 1) Organization structure and the limit of their authority. 2) The limit of their knowledge & when to bring in technical assistance. 3) How to smile, greet people like friends and how to say let's find the perfect product. 4) That help was available at any time upon request 5) They did not have to take abuse from anyone (including me).

The problem with many customers is an unrealistic expectation. They won't spend a few extra dollars for expertise, (which is entirely their right) but are thrilled at a website that picked up a box, attached a shipping label (which the customer typed) and got it there on time. The customers weren't treated badly by the website--they were completely ignored until they pulled out the credit card. & this is a comparison somehow? If all a shop had was little tags out describing what the product was, no fitting rooms, and a cashier with no real knowledge ready to ring you up; but had internet prices & selection, would you shop there? REALLY?--or would you come back to this forum and talk about what jerks worked at this dive shop 'cause they didn't talk to you?

rant over- Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[warmwaterturner]

I think many dive shops tend to be their own worst enemy.

I agree with this. I also think they tend to be a little clubish. Regular patrons get more attention than walk-ins......I have seen the employees at my LDS act in a standoffish manner that would have offended me if I had not know their personality already. Not great for the new and potential customer!

 

[seaducer]

I agree with this. I also think they tend to be a little clubish. Regular patrons get more attention than walk-ins......I have seen the employees at my LDS act in a standoffish manner that would have offended me if I had not know their personality already. Not great for the new and potential customer!

For sure. A better philosophy would be to try and turn that walkin into a regular...

 

[cocoajoe]

Agree with 3rd paragraph. Seems to me, that they're not salesmen who dive. They're divers that sell stuff. A smile and greeting goes a long way.