LDS - They have a bad attitude.

[Anti-Hero]

I guess I'm pretty lucky here. We have 3 local dive shops and they're all fairly good; each with it's own good/bad attributes.

 

[rhwestfall]

I agree with this. I also think they tend to be a little clubish. Regular patrons get more attention than walk-ins......I have seen the employees at my LDS act in a standoffish manner that would have offended me if I had not know their personality already. Not great for the new and potential customer!

KA-CHING! You nailed it there. I walk in (returning to the sport after 8 years, and this shop wasn't around back then) - tell them that, and then I ask a few questions about servicing gear (they appear to carry my line), possible refresher classes, what trips they do.... and.... I get the cold stare of "You haven't been with us, and so I'm not really therefore interested in you - that information is only for the 'regulars' "..... Okay, do I have to renounce my training, scrap all my gear, and start all over? KMA :mooner:!

When I dare ask about air - Next comes the rant of how folks just use them only as an air station (hint - you should buy gear from us), and how they loose money on air fills, and ... Do I really care?

I will say, the guy there was willing to talk about all kinds of stuff (non-diving related), but as for diving, and what they might bring me back to the store for..... NOTHING!!!!

 

[captain]

Depends on your definition of valid. Business owners are free to set their own rules, for the most part. It may not be a smart way to run a business ... and it may cost them customers ... but it's still their choice.

We have a shop in our area who has asked several divers to leave his shop and not return because he found out they were buying stuff on the Internet. Personally, I don't think it's a smart way to run a business ... but it's his business, and his call how to run it. I know quite a few people who are incredibly loyal to that particular shop. I know an almost equal number of people who won't go near the place. Bottom line is that he's decided to pick and choose who he does business with ... which as a business owner is his right to do.

Maybe if people would quit using shops as "dressing rooms" to go get all the right information they needed to make their Internet purchases, things like this would happen less. You can fault the shop owners all you like, but when they spend an hour or more of their time making sure you've got the information you need to purchase the right gear ... only to find out later that you then purchased it from an Internet site to save some $$ ... then they have a justification for treating you like you're wasting their time (because you are).

Sometimes it falls back on the customer. Using a dive shop for sizing information when you know you're gonna purchase from an Internet site ain't cool ... but a lot of people do it anyway. So in that respect, there's two sides of this story that need to be examined. Customer relations is a two-way proposition ... and the customer ain't always right ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It's not about his right, it's about if is a smart business practice and it's not

 

[vladimir]

The dive shops once relied on blissful ignorance of the consumer and they could get away with telling them that their brands were the best and everything else was junk, and the dive agency they certified students through was the best. They could also get away with telling people that the price was the price.
Pre internet you'd have to see a price advertised in the back of a magazine then call that shop where ever it was and order it. You had to rely on the person on the other end to tell you about what you were buying. Before magazine ads you went into the LDS and all aspects of the dive business went through them almost 100%. I say almost because there were some mail order back then.
Now every manufacturer has a site and online dealers have extensive review pages where consumers can compare prices and features.

Twenty years ago I stood in a pit and traded commodity options for my own account. Just me, my life's savings, a PC, and a part-time clerk--oh yeah, and a good yelling voice. Customers were sophisticated, even back then, but we in the pit enjoyed a "time and place" advantage. We could react to market changes faster and with more complete information than the customer on the other end of a phone line. I once made $360,000 on a trade that a customer was 30 seconds late in cancelling. It took me another three minutes to completely offset the risk--not a bad three-and-a-half minutes' work. I am in essentially the same business today. I have a staff of quants, hundreds of millions of borrowed dollars at risk, and a huge investment in IT to exploit razor-thin profit margins and gain an edge often measured in milliseconds. The near-perfect dissemination of information has put everybody on equal footing, and the only way to make money is to be better than your competitors. I know how the LDS owner feels as he watches his niche shrink, and he has my sympathy. I miss the old days too, but clinging to them is not an option.

 

[k ellis]

I know how the LDS owner feels as he watches his niche shrink, and he has my sympathy. I miss the old days too, but clinging to them is not an option.

I agree that long ago the information age was slow and people relied heavily on the here and now aspect. When they went to the store they only had the option of buying what a store had or simply went with out. People did not have the beniefit of knowing that a simple mouse click could save sometimes thousands of dollars on purchases from a store 1000 miles away and have it delivered to your door as early as the next morning sometimes.

Its sad that the internet basicly streamlined so many aspects of life and made life so much more efficient and price friendly in not only diving but any buisness for that matter. Just look at the post office loosing money because more people are emailing then snail mailing these days.

I have though seen some interesting methods of counter selling the internet with some clever ideas that pretty much make buying localy a pleasant experience. I have seen one LDS (out of state of course) that sits right on a lake and is just minutes from a dive shop do some interesting marketing ideas. They have a little land with the shop and offer camping and over night stays for what I have personaly seen 19 dollars per night in a bunk house! even offered extremely affordable space to park and RV or a tent and sold tanks for almost no profit with free air fills in some cases for a specified period of time.

Just the thought of their over the top offers make dealing with them one of the most awesome and rewarding experiences.

They branched alittle away from traditional scuba too. they sale a limited supply of hunting gear and fishing gear also and offer onsite scuba classes with a simple 2 minute drive to the lake for the open water courses all at unbelieveable prices (As they put it they are not in it for the money but the enjoyment of helping others) *** They do however make enough to pay instructors though ***

This is one example of how a dive shop can compete successfully with the internet and has dominated that entire location as its almost 45 minutes to another location even close to the lake.

 

[movieflick]

It seems this thread has turned into an Internet vs LDS shop. That was not my intent. It is a forum so I am not bitching, but what I am getting at is that LDS have crap customer service. Not all of course but most. I was curious if others seemed to see this same trend and apparently they do. I think the Internet is what is being offered up as a reason but that is just not valid IMO.

 

[k ellis]

I agree with you. No matter if they are loosing buisness to the internet, the competitor across town or just no one in that are cared to dive any more it really does not excuse the fact that they are digging their self a hole for financial ruin.

I look at it in a simple manner. If you are running a buisness that makes you unhappy then sell it and do something that makes you happy. Dont drag everyone else down around you!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I agree with you. No matter if they are loosing buisness to the internet, the competitor across town or just no one in that are cared to dive any more it really does not excuse the fact that they are digging their self a hole for financial ruin.

I look at it in a simple manner. If you are running a buisness that makes you unhappy then sell it and do something that makes you happy. Dont drag everyone else down around you!

Oddly, if I look back at the dive shops that have gone out of business locally over the last seven or eight years, many were owned by some of the most affable people in the business. I can think of at least three who were owned by really great people, who tried hard to be accommodating to both their clients and their competitors ... and went out of business because those people took advantage of their acommodating nature.

So I can see two sides here ... sure, nobody wants to do business with a jerk. But the other side is that there are an awful lot of people out there who would be more than happy to "cheat" any advantage offered by an LDS owner trying to give them a break. And when your actions end up costing the guy money, you reduce the chances that he'll be in business a year from now.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lee Taylor]

There is always the exception, BUT when I visit a dive shop for the first time I always prepare myself for the possibility of strange and odd behavior.

One learns this over time and through experience.

I quit trying to figure it out a long time ago. Its just a quirk of the dive industry.

 

[CamG]

Movieflick there is no excuse for poor customer service!
The internet revolution has changed the way we all do retail business in general.
Customer service has tried to follow the same impersonal path but it can not be done.
Successful internet dealers will testify loud and clear on this topic!
If you are not personable, and provide stellar customer service customers / clients move on to the next guy.

We are witnessing a revolution of sorts in the business world as it adjusts to the challenges of our current economy and the wonderful world of customer service.
It is no different than any other historical challenges in the past.
Our choice to choose what shop we do business with helps shape the future of the dive industry.
I used to support all local shops equally or try to do so but after one to many encounters with afore mentioned issues that was not possible and therefore I did not recommend them to others as well.
It is sad when the LDS's in your local are all in this group but they will change or they will disappear.
That is the cold hard facts.

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!