LDS - They have a bad attitude.

[captain]

The fact is most shops did fine when discount mail order diving stores were around in the 60's and 70's so online sales shouldn't have a major effect now. it's bad businessmen not online sales.
There are about 5 shops in my area, I only use one, why, because they are competitive with online and have a great selection of gear and they have been around for 50 years whereas others have come and gone. And new Orleans isn't exactly the holly grail of dive locations unless you are a spearo.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'm finding that the whole dive industry in general is the most bizzaar thing I've ever seen as far as a sporting related industry goes.
Is there any other sport out there that you can think of where the local shop and the internet run in parallel universes?
In other words, lets take rock climbing or wakeboarding or bicycling, do any of those other sports have one type of gear in a brick and mortar shop and a whole different set of gear available on the internet that the brick and mortar shops refuse to carry and pretend nobody is using?
Do some manufacturers have a competition radius and mandated price fixing?
Does anybody in any other sports related retail industry insist on a 100% markup when internet dealers can easily sell for 25% less and still make money.
The dive industry is probably the only retail industry left that has a 100% markup. The standard markup in other retail is 25 to 30%, and 40 or 50% is considered gravy.

Eventually I think LDS's are going to be severely thinned out even more than they are now.
In my area there are two major ones. They both complain about business. If one closed down the traffic would be shifted to the other and it would probably do OK, but I suppose it would depend on which one. One is liked better than the other so if the wrong one went out then foot traffic would still be bad at the not liked one. People would find an alternative.

Me personally, I've been thinking a lot about where I would get air fills and such if let's say they
both closed down. Other gear would be available online or stopping by shops during my travels.
I think I would continue to buy used steel tanks to where I got 10 in total. That would give me 5 outings on average (two tank dive day). For the last outing I would choose to go to Monterey or up to Fort Bragg and take all my tanks in to get fills with an air card. The shop in Fort Bragg isn't going anywhere because it's the only shop around up there and everybody loves them. I never once had to listen to them belly aching about losing money on airfills and implying that I'm some sort of mooch because that's all I ever come in for.

Why don't any stores like Big 5, Sports Authority, or Oshman's carry any scuba gear?
Maybe it's time they did. They could have a list of independant scuba instructors that they could recommend. No in-house instructors needed.
Air fills? Maybe it's time for a tank exchange program like they do at welding supply places. No onsite compressor, no maintenance, no waiting.
But, you have to subscribe to the program and be willing to accept any tank (of the same size and material).


Why don't LDS's charge by the cubic foot?
If LDS's charged say .07 cents per cubic foot then it would be fair. A steel 72 would cost $5.06 and a HP 120 would cost $8.40.
They could stop with the games about singles or doubles, HP or LP, and pony bottles. It would go by the cubic foot and you pay for what you get.

 

[movieflick]

I think if I were a shop owner I'd find ScubaBoard hard to take sometimes ... sure, there are some poorly run shops out there, but there are some really good ones too.

It'd be nice if we'd judge them individually, rather than using the occasional bad example to paint every dive shop owner out there as a "moron" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

If it was occasinal I would agree but it seems to be the rule not the exception.

 

[k ellis]

If it was occasinal I would agree but it seems to be the rule not the exception.

I hate to say it but you are right. There are good shops out there but most of them tend to shut you out if they even suspect you bought online. Even had one shop get down right ugly at the innocent mention of leisurepro. I said something to the effect of "I saw some aqualung fins on leisure pro and I............" before I could even answer they slapped the desk and stood up and said "If you trust your life to grey market products thats fine but dont ever buy anything there and come in here with it"

Why is it that the simple thought of someone getting a fair deal just drives people to want to fight? Its like I hear the old saying alot that aqualung will not allow reasonable pricing and instead insist on robbery. When they sale to other countries or what ever those products are now used by definition because the store bought them. In the united states with exception to music and such there is no law against me taking anything I bought and turning around and selling it for a price I deem fair. Why is it LDS dont understand its no diffrent with Leisurepro (In the event this is their strategy.)

 

[dmoore19]

If it was occasinal I would agree but it seems to be the rule not the exception.

Must be where you live. I have yet to walk into a dive shop around here and not get a pleasant greeting and a desire to talk about the sport we all love. The shop I go to has good prices, friendly people and a good supply of the things I want. I suppose if I lived where service was the exception to the rule, I'd probably buy online too. Until that happens I will continue to buy from a local dive shop. Sorry the experience in your part of the world isn't pleasant.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Must be where you live. I have yet to walk into a dive shop around here and not get a pleasant greeting and a desire to talk about the sport we all love. The shop I go to has good prices, friendly people and a good supply of the things I want. I suppose if I lived where service was the exception to the rule, I'd probably buy online too. Until that happens I will continue to buy from a local dive shop. Sorry the experience in your part of the world isn't pleasant.

It must be because you live in a purple state. I live in a blue state, or is it a red state? whatever it is the dive shops in my area can suck depending on the weather and day of week, which also determines who is working that day and what kind of mood they are in.
The internet doesn't have a mood, just good prices, but no personality.
I'm still trying to figure out why I'm supposed to support my LDS when they don't give a rip about me? Maybe for they're bad attitudes and high prices?

Yeah! sign me up!!

 

[jm]

I wonder what would happen if small local dive shops actually teamed up with on line retailers to offer some equipment that may be small demand items for that particular LDS (say, dive scooters for instance)? The LDS would carry some products in house (maybe a few brands or products that move well) with the rest being ordered in from whatever online retailer they set up a partnership with. This would give them the ability to satisfy immediate customer needs as well as obtain gear for their customers without the hassle of minimum orders. The LDS would not need to lose sales because they do not carry a particular brand or specific item. It would give the online customers a place to talk with a live person who could help them select the gear best suited for them. I am sure that any major online retailer would be able to give the LDS a percentage of sales based on volume. The LDS would benefit from increased sales as well as efficiency without having to carry excessive inventory. Together they may be able to secure better pricing from the manufacturers. Perhaps some LDS or manufacturers would consider adding their comments?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The most likely thing that would happen is that their major supplier (i.e. ScubaPro or Aqualung) would decide to drop them as a retailer.

Until the retailers stop allowing major equipment suppliers to dictate the terms of how they run their business, this problem's not going to get resolved. The suppliers don't really care, though ... because they can sit back and with a wink and a nod dump massive quantities of gear at internet outlets and then claim it's "unauthorized" and weasel out of the warranty ... it makes them a lot of money. Meanwhile, the dealers take it in the shorts because the rules dictated by the supplier don't allow them to be competitive with those internet outlets. They sell small quantities at high prices, the outlets sell large quantities at low prices (but without the expense of a mfg. warranty) and everybody's happy ... except the LDS and the customer ... but with large multinational companies owning the suppliers, your purchase isn't even a drop in the bucket, so they don't care.

If you want to get mad at someone, don't take it out on the shop owner ... he's just playing by the crappy rules of the industry. The folks making those rules are the major equipment suppliers ... and they're playing a game that only they can win.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JCAT]

I receive newsletters from many dive shops. Some I frequent, others I may have been in once. It's a good way to keep up with whats happening. The following appeared in one I got last week.

With the deck stacked against brick shops, as NWGD stated, and the economy as it is, it is no wonder.

More conversations like this thread need to take place among divers and the rules dive shops face by suppliers discussed.

I just want to say a few words about internet scuba sales. At first glance the prices on the internet may look attractive, but be sure you are comparing apples to apples and not apples to grapes. The first thing to consider when you buy on the internet is where will you get your service work done??? You are going to service your gear, right?

With some gear brands it’s hard to find service centers and even if you do, you will pay a HIGH premium to send off your gear to persons you don’t know or fully trust.

The next time you consider looking on the internet remember this. Just a few short years ago there were 4 scuba shops in **** and 2 in *****. Now, ***** is the only shop left open. Every penny you spend on the internet is money spent trying to put us out of business. If you are considering buying gear on the internet at least bring in a copy of the gear you are looking at and give us a chance to match or beat the price (apples to apples of course.)

I can think of quite a few things the internet can’t do for you.
Fill your tanks! Service your tanks and regulators! Offer local diving and exotic travel! Repair your mask! Replace your strap! Teach classes! Can you think of any others?

Please, support your local dive shop. In this economy this is more important than ever before. We want to be here for you but we need your support!​

 

[redacted]

If you want to get mad at someone, don't take it out on the shop owner ... he's just playing by the crappy rules of the industry. The folks making those rules are the major equipment suppliers ... and they're playing a game that only they can win.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It takes two to tango. While I am sure that is true in some cases, my experience is that the Scubapro and AL dealers want that price restriction to protect their profit margins. That is why they opted to sell those brands. Those few that sell those brands but want to be competitive have the means. Few use them.