LDS - They have a bad attitude.

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What LDS's may have to consider doing is teaming up with larger sports retailers and get a corner in a store that carries other sports stuff, similar to how Sport Chalet operates.
That way they are under the umbrella of things like rent, insurance, other overhead, etc.
The person running the dive corner would be another employee.

I don't see how a stand alone dive shop is going to make it in the future with sales of overpriced gear continuing to decrease, and rents, insurance, wages, and utilities continuing to go up.
It's just a matter of time.
 
I'm finding that the whole dive industry in general is the most bizzaar thing I've ever seen as far as a sporting related industry goes.
Is there any other sport out there that you can think of where the local shop and the internet run in parallel universes?
In other words, lets take rock climbing or wakeboarding or bicycling, do any of those other sports have one type of gear in a brick and mortar shop and a whole different set of gear available on the internet that the brick and mortar shops refuse to carry and pretend nobody is using?
Do some manufacturers have a competition radius and mandated price fixing?
Does anybody in any other sports related retail industry insist on a 100% markup when internet dealers can easily sell for 25% less and still make money.
The dive industry is probably the only retail industry left that has a 100% markup. The standard markup in other retail is 25 to 30%, and 40 or 50% is considered gravy.

Eventually I think LDS's are going to be severely thinned out even more than they are now.
In my area there are two major ones. They both complain about business. If one closed down the traffic would be shifted to the other and it would probably do OK, but I suppose it would depend on which one. One is liked better than the other so if the wrong one went out then foot traffic would still be bad at the not liked one. People would find an alternative.

Me personally, I've been thinking a lot about where I would get air fills and such if let's say they
both closed down. Other gear would be available online or stopping by shops during my travels.
I think I would continue to buy used steel tanks to where I got 10 in total. That would give me 5 outings on average (two tank dive day). For the last outing I would choose to go to Monterey or up to Fort Bragg and take all my tanks in to get fills with an air card. The shop in Fort Bragg isn't going anywhere because it's the only shop around up there and everybody loves them. I never once had to listen to them belly aching about losing money on airfills and implying that I'm some sort of mooch because that's all I ever come in for.

Why don't any stores like Big 5, Sports Authority, or Oshman's carry any scuba gear?
Maybe it's time they did. They could have a list of independant scuba instructors that they could recommend. No in-house instructors needed.
Air fills? Maybe it's time for a tank exchange program like they do at welding supply places. No onsite compressor, no maintenance, no waiting.
But, you have to subscribe to the program and be willing to accept any tank (of the same size and material).



All your answers to your questions are the same -" it's a market economy. " Why don't Walmart or Big five carry gear? The answer is it isn't profitable enough for them to. Why else do you think? Everything is profit driven, that's the basis of how a market economy operates. If you're a merchant your motive it to make money, to make a living so you pursue the avenues that best allow you to do this and you avoid the scenarios that don't.

Plust Scuba is a niche sport. I'd bet Big 5 sells more putters in a weekend then the total dive industry sells regulators in a month.

Why does a dive shop charge a 100% markup and an online store a 25%?

Seriously? How much retail rent does the online store pay each month? You act as if dive shops make up prices that they need in order to keep their leer jets going. How many local dive shops owners are millionaires? You acting as if the 10 riches men in America are dive shop owners and they got that way through bilking divers out of paying outrageous profits.

Sorry, but I have to say you're very niaive if you think the world operates on a 25% profit margin and dive shops are the only ones with a 100% mark up on product.

Go order your gear online, but make sure you call their 800 number and ask them all the questions you want, stay out of the LDS and don't waste their time, money and valuable retail rent oogling over their 100% marked up gear, and waste the time of some very experienced person who can give you the information you want, only to go online and buy the gear. I figure you'll be the same guy posting the question in the future after you drive the LDS out of business "Why are there no local dive shops who carry any gear anymore? How come nobody at a LDS knows anything about any gear anymore? Used to be a time when you could go into a LDS and talk to a knowledgeable person behind the counter who knew all the ins and outs of dive gear. What happended to that?"


Why don't LDS's charge by the cubic foot?
If LDS's charged say .07 cents per cubic foot then it would be fair. A steel 72 would cost $5.06 and a HP 120 would cost $8.40.
They could stop with the games about singles or doubles, HP or LP, and pony bottles. It would go by the cubic foot and you pay for what you get.

Maybe you should just get your fills for free? Have you considered that when somebody goes into business and risks everything, that they want to make a profit as a reward for their risk? Maybe they want to have a house, pay for their kids college, go out to dinner, go on a dive vacation? Seems crazy to me, why they don't just put a jar out there and let you put in it what you think they should earn. :shakehead:

Anyways, for people who cry about how a business operates, I say the best revenge is for you to open up one and teach them the error of their ways. Unfortunately, you'll end up out of business shortly as you discover that you can't pay the rent or the help by only making $10.00 on a BCD. You'll quickly realize all those nasty things like taxes, payroll taxes, workers comp, overhead, expenses, advertising, rent, etc... not to mention things like trying to save for your retirement, all require making a substantial gross profit.
 
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Why don't Walmart or Big five carry gear?

Believe it or not I did go to a walmart once that did sale a limited amount of scuba gear. I was totaly shocked but it was there right in front of me. Dive flags, wet suits, dry bags by innovative scuba, and some pretty basic gear not like BCDs, Regulators,tanks or computers but pretty much every thing else. Even some fins :)
 
Believe it or not I did go to a walmart once that did sale a limited amount of scuba gear. I was totaly shocked but it was there right in front of me. Dive flags, wet suits, dry bags by innovative scuba, and some pretty basic gear not like BCDs, Regulators,tanks or computers but pretty much every thing else. Even some fins :)

Man, if they carried regs, computers, BCD's and Tanks, that would definitely spell the end of it for a lot of LDS's! Wonder if they'll ever start doing so, in places like Florida where there is a serious market?

Kristopher
 
Man, if they carried regs, computers, BCD's and Tanks, that would definitely spell the end of it for a lot of LDS's! Wonder if they'll ever start doing so, in places like Florida where there is a serious market?

Kristopher

Dont know. It was really an odd sight but I was curious as to if it was some sort of pilot program just to test out the market or something. You know use some low cost aspects of the sport to see how many people picked up on it.

Id say it would be kind of an interesting sight to take your tank to a supercenter and have a little shop in the front like many do and get them filled. Not supporting the idea but just wondering how well that would work out.

Walmart Dive Centers (Cringe) what would become of the free world :idk:
 
... I bought my first reg and BCD at Costco ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Plust Scuba is a niche sport. I'd bet Big 5 sells more putters in a weekend then the total dive industry sells regulators in a month.

I think Scuba would do a little better if there was more positive conversations about it rather then constant bashing about the sport too. People come to places like scubaboard to learn about the sport and ask an honest question often times that others perceive to be a troll (And yes most of the time they are trolls) but people want to know more about the sport. When all they read about is how Local Dive Shops rob people blind, Internet sales will get you junk equipment because you cant get it serviced, PADI is nothing but a money hungry Giant. This certification is just a waste of time and the list goes on and on how would a person perceive the sport who was considering getting in to it.

There is so very little main line information out there such as advertisements on television encourageing the sport and virtually no television ads advertising gear sales. People dont know much about the sport and like I was once where I did not even know you could get certified in Oklahoma. Many people see diving as a waste of money because they are land locked and no where near an ocean yet have no one telling them about how exciting diving in a local lake or quarry even a slow paced river can be.

Imagine for a moment you were not scuba certified and you decide you want to get certified and know absolutely nothing about scuba centers or anything. You discover there are say 3 dive shops in your area and so you decide to go and explore all 3 to get a feel of which one you prefer. You go in and say I have researched this and decided I want to learn to dive what do you offer and I was wondering why LeisurePro is so much cheaper then what you have in your shop is there a diffrence in types of gear or whats the reasoning for that.

The person responds how the other 2 shops are selfish egotisical or maybe just the more common answer which is they are a bunch of idiots over there. How would a new diver perceive the sport? What if he really just was not aware of the reasoning why LeisurePro is a sore subject with LDS in many cases and they go off in him in the same manner they do when a more seasoned diver goes buying from there there. How would he take a harsh stern crash course in why LeisurePro is a grey market. How would a new diver perceive that in terms of the sport being a fun and friendly sport? What if he was looking at gear and really had not even spoken to the counter but the clerk wont give him the time of day because he feels the guy is wasting his time trying his gear out so he can buy that gear online?

There are literaly thousands of people out there who would absolutely love to try diving but are under informed about how fun it really is how exciting it can be and yet very little effort outside of the LDS and Internet Dive services exploit this eager population. Yes there are T shirts people buy but how many non divers know what a dive flag is and a fancy slogan like I love scuba? Scuba is a very direct sport and a single line like I love scuba is not usually enough to encourage people to come try the sport. It needs to be more descriptive and informative and encouraging to get people to come in and try it.

The Base of potential divers is there we just need more positive interactions with the potential diver and less public bashing to where they stumble on to it and get the impression there is no one left worthy to teach it because every one is a horrible teacher. They need more positive attraction like divers setting up dive weekends maybe shore dives on a popular beach and not just suit up and get in but maybe set up a canopy and have someone sit there and give out brochures while the people enquiring can see the divers actually suiting up and getting in. There is so much that can be done yet in many cases so little is done.
 
I buy my SCUBA bags from walmart. They are not called SCUBA bags of course but for $25 you can get a perfect dive bag vs $200 that some of the SCUBA CO's charge for the same thing.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Protege-3...-Black-and-Charcoal/13269107?findingMethod=rr

or if you need something real big

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Expandable-Rolling-Duffle-Bag/11069689?findingMethod=rr

They hold up well, no issues in the sand, and if you tear it or it gets funky over time you can trash it without giving it a second thought :)

@K_ellis - I agree. I was fortunate to get certified in CO whish is land locked of course but the SCUBA community there is massive. I never had a negative expirience there from divers or LDS. That is why I have been shocked that the other shops I have walked into around the country have been so negative.
 
Id say it would be kind of an interesting sight to take your tank to a supercenter and have a little shop in the front like many do and get them filled. Not supporting the idea but just wondering how well that would work out.

I don't know about the air fill stations. Most of the people I've seen working at Walmart weren't exactly a ball of fire in the brain department. I can see it now...you get your tank filled, get to the dive site...."Man, this air sure tastes funny....OH, S!!T, IT'S PROPANE!!!!" :D:D

Kristopher
 
I buy my SCUBA bags from walmart. They are not called SCUBA bags of course but for $25 you can get a perfect dive bag vs $200 that some of the SCUBA CO's charge for the same thing.

Walmart.com: Protege X-Large 30" 2-Section Rolling Duffel Bag: Luggage

or if you need something real big

Walmart.com: 32" Expandable Rolling Duffel Bag, Black: Luggage

They hold up well, no issues in the sand, and if you tear it or it gets funky over time you can trash it without giving it a second thought :)

an it doesnt have that distinct "I have scuba gear inside so steal me" look to it either
 

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