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LED vs HID

Discussion in 'Cave Diving' started by RescueTechDiver, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. fletcher

    fletcher Guest

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Bruxelles
    24
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    Hi,

    Almost everyone here is talking about signaling. I'm also a "tech" diver and what i want from my light is that it illuminates the largest possible area. It's of no interests to me to buy a 21,35 or 50 watts hid that will illuminate a 30 cm2 area so much that i will turn blind. With lights like solus, you can get both.
    When i looked at Mark Chase test (kudos for the quality of the report) i found that the solus is as good for signaling as the Salvo. If you don't see that kind of beam through murky water you won't see the salvo neither.
     
  2. ArcticDiver

    ArcticDiver Solo Diver

    1,831
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    Like it says: A Heartily Held Belief Does Not Reality Make. Take the lights underwater in obscured conditions, typical northern waters and do your own test. Then come back with the results. It has never failed the HID gets selected.

    Of course I, like a lot of others, have both kinds. After all, who says diving is an inexpensive sport, eh?
     
  3. KevJ

    KevJ Angel Fish

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    Hi Fletcher, It must be the different particles in the water around northern Europe...

    There are special particles in the water around North America that only let light from HIDs pass :wink: - although they seem to be missing in parts of Canada.

    Kev
     
  4. fletcher

    fletcher Guest

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Bruxelles
    24
    0
    0
    Hi, Arctic diver,

    Be sure i already did. Compared my 10 watt hid with a three led light and my hid was dead in comparison. The led cuts through much more easily in our belgian deep, black dirty and murky quarries.
    But, my hid has a 13° beam and the led something between 8 and 10°. Anyway leds are as powerfull as hid when they are focused properly.

    Hi Kev,

    I must say that i read the pepsi challenge post on deco stop recently. How weird.
    That's a fact that most of american divers are hid (who said salvo?) addicts. It's a difficult market for you to enter because salvo is popular and offers great customer service. That's not a reason to deny the attractive qualities of leds over hid. You like your hid, well, keep it. But when my hid will die, i'll buy a led light in a heartbeat. I don't care about signaling(yes, some divers don't care about signaling).

    Of course salvo makes great stuff but that post was not fair to you because the pics from Salvo were on land. Some divers think they have the best equipment in the world and that's a poor attitude. Don't be narrow minded. Hid is good so is led. Before criticism, give it a try. Personally, i tried both and i do prefer leds.
    I saw the solus backup light in action and it's really impressive with one little led. So, your SU-1250 should kick ass, the mark chase test show it in a magnificent way.
    The solus is in the same league as the salvo 21 watt, no question.

    Solus SU-1250 LED torch test - DIR Explorers

    Regards,

    PS: I'm sure the particles in our belgian quarries are more friendly for your lights, kev.
    Keep going, you make great lights.
     
  5. robzr

    robzr ScubaBoard Sponsor ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Portland, OR
    252
    0
    16

    Hey Fletcher - looks like your beloved Tilly Tec has some new competition. Uh oh. Salvo is now making primary LED lights (Salvo Diving Equipment - Rebel LED Lights), as well as the backup lights. But notice they aren't nearly as bright, efficient, or well focused as comparable HIDs. (21w LED = 1100 Lumen, 21w HID = 1500 Lumen, and as the wattage goes up with HID, so does efficiency. 35w HID = 3000, 50w = 5000). The LEDs are a fixed 6 degree focus, a focusable HID can achieve a lot tighter beam than that. The tighter it is, the further it goes.

    It's a little (biased?) unfair of you to compare your low end (10w, 13 degree, likely MR11, perhaps welch allyn?) , low tech HID to what you've been bragging on boards all over the place is state of the art LED tech.

    And if you have a can light, and don't care about signalling, you are in the minority. If you're diving in water with 1-2 meter vis and you don't care about signalling, I wouldn't dive with you.

    If you don't need a bright light, with a tight beam, or focusability, or want a small battery pack, then by all means, an LED primary is fine for you. For the rest of us, HID is the smart choice for at least the near future. It's not an "ignorant American" thing, its' just a "right tool for the job" thing.

    Rob
     
  6. robzr

    robzr ScubaBoard Sponsor ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Portland, OR
    252
    0
    16

    Here, let me reprint part of this review you cite as proof that an LED is "in the same league as the salvo 21 watt, no question", and "is as good for signaling as the Salvo":


    "What was lost would be long range emergency signalling power. By which I mean an obvious hot spot at 10M+ distance to signal another diver of a problem. The Solus just wasn’t in the same league as the Salvo in this respect.."

    and

    "The issue of power output comparison don’t really hit home till your diving in good conditions with high levels of ambient light. The Salvo can still punch out a good 5m+ of signalling power but the Solus feels a bit lacking and washed out."

    and

    "It’s a great torch. Its light output is more than I need and it still has enough signalling capability to make it suitable for my sort of wreck diving. If I am more than 3-5m away from my buddy there is something very wrong."

    and

    "The cost of the Solus units can not be ignored. At $1755 from Golum gear its $555 more expensive than the equivalent Salvo 4.5ah 21W salvo and $355 more than the six hour burn time 9ah Li-iron Salvo."

    But lets pretend he never said that :)

    Rob
     
  7. fletcher

    fletcher Guest

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Bruxelles
    24
    0
    0
    Well, I have my beloved Tillytec and you have your beloved Salvo isn't it? Yes it is because you waited until today to answer. An what happened today? Salvo made an advertisement for his newly arrived leds.

    First, what i mean with "i don't like signaling" is that i like when my light does illuminate a large area. That's for me the first purpose of my light. Believe me, i know what "no viz" means. I don't need a light that cuts through 5 meters of dirt because my buddy is never that far. If your's is, that's with you that i'll never dive with.

    Here in Europe, you don't see salvo lights. You see a lot of green force everywhere and some metalsub. And the green force lights and Metalsub have a large beam of light even for the 50 watt hid. The impact 100 hid has a 24° beam. Good for signaling? For you, probably not but there are several way of diving. Yours is not better than mine.
    That kind of stuff lights up a great area to enjoy the dive. My buddy stays near me and with such lights nobody died (yet, how incredible).
    When there was no HID, you think there was no cave or wreck diving? Of course there was. Other light means other security dispositions but security anyway. There are so many tech divers diving with halogen lights. Maybe it's not as state of the art as hid but it works.

    Maybe my light is a low end. But low tech? Do you have the pretention to say what is tech and what is not?

    And when salvo will release his 200 watt hid, will you buy it? I've plenty of light an i will not spend money in that "never ending look at my bigger than yours light race"
    If you wanna talk about security, there are always several answers to each problem.
    Before talking about led specs try one. I did, did you?
     

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