Lights for long dives

[Benthic]

While not strictly a rebreather question, I have a question for those of you who routinely push your canister lights beyond 4 hours.

What are you using? I suppose the 13.5A/10w HID would give enough time, and it might be close with an 18w at the same amperage. I had a conversation over the weekend with a light builder about the possibility of a custom light canister for driving the 21w HID I am looking to buy. It seemed doable, and then it struck me that this might be something RB divers would be interested in.

So how about it? Would you go back to carrying the larger SLA sized canisters to have 8+ hours burntime on your 21w HIDs? I'm not talking a return to the days of the AUL Spectrum lights, but something larger than the common 9A and 13A canisters we see commonly now.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Oh dear God......

I'm probably going to regret posting this, but here goes.

Perrone, this is insane! Don't you think you have the cart in front of the horse here?!?! According to your profile, you're not certified and have done no dives. Now, I know that's not true and that you are certified. However the last I knew, you were chasing my wife for an AOW card (a class you subsequently cancelled), and you didn't have either a cave card of a trimix card. So when, exactly, are you planning on making dives that would require a light that will burn longer than 4-6 hours? Your money and energy would be FAR better spent on experience and training at this point. Why don't you worry about that for now? There are plenty of high powered (i.e. HID) lights on the market that will burn 6-8 hours and that will meet your needs WELL into your cave diving career. If you've got plans to do deep RB cave diving, then good for you. However there are about 1000 things that you'll need to accomplish between now and then. You are worrying about task number 892 when you should be worrying about task number 1 (training) and task number 2 (experience). In the meantime there are several of us who would greatly appreciate it if you would stop pontificating about rebreathers and scrubber duration times when you clearly know nothing about them. Here's a few facts for you. ISC's Meg scrubber is 'officially' rated at 4 hours (go ahead, call and ask them). The Cis-Lunar scrubber for the Meg is not in production. The radial that is in production by Golem Gear has not formally been tested in a lab.

Now then, to answer your question about lights. There are plenty of ways to get a light to burn for longer than 4 hours. More than a few are available as off the shelf products from Salvo, Halcyon, Sartek, etc. Also I'd be willing to bet that any of those companies would be happy to talk to you about designing and building a specialty application light if you were serious about it (how do you think I got a Halcyon wing on my Megalodon?). There are people out there doing dives that last well into the 8-12 hour range and they have already addressed the problem of lighting for those durations. I don't know what all the solutions are, but if you really want answers to that question you should ask them. Here's a hint--most of them don't read ScubaBoard.

So please, stop acting like you've got this pressing high-tech problem that needs a solution. You are talking about problems that are faced by those on the cutting edge and you are clearly a very long ways from that edge.

Brian

 

[caveseeker7]

Oh dear God......

I'm probably going to regret posting this, but here goes.

Don't know if you will, but ... THANKS, Brian.

 

[Hammerhead]

Cheers Benthic!

Believe it or not, I had no questions about rebreathers, but you answered a lot of my other questions...

:god:

 

[TSandM]

Benthic, I believe if you go back and read the original post, it's a question from somebody asking if rebreather divers would be interested in a longer-burning light, if someone came up with a regularly manufactured one. I don't read that Perrone wants one for himself (although perhaps he does). I don't think there is anything wrong with someone having an active curiosity about things, even those currently beyond one's reach. After all, am I wrong for having done tons of reading about decompression theory and technical diving and cave diving, even though my skills aren't there yet?

 

[CCRDolphinDiver]

Sometimes a thing just needs to be said, PF has pontificated frequently on this board and is more often wrong or misinformed than not. He seems to like to answer questions that are not directed any where near him and trys to come off sounding like an expert. Every once in a while, someone needs to remind him that he does not know it all, not even close. usually its amusing patter and harmless....but when he starts spouting statistics about a CCR unit he has probably never even been in the same time zone with, thats when the smack down has to come from the clouds like Thor's own hammer.

So, PF instead of spending your days and nights poring over your keyboard, how about heading for the water and learning how to dive? I really think it should be a rule, that you cannot have more posts online than dives. How about Let those of us who actually own Megalodons answer the questions about them hmmm? You can answer any question that comes up regarding large beanie babie collections, OK?

Anyway, PF, or anyone else listening in, if you are heading for DEMA next week, please stop by the ISC booth #864 and let me show you what a Meg really looks like.
Happy to share information!

Cheers!

 

[wedivebc]

... I really think it should be a rule, that you cannot have more posts online than dives.

I used to think that too but had to eat my words about a year ago http://scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=72372

 

[Benthic]

Get some kids. We're going to be here a while.

Benthic, I believe if you go back and read the original post, it's a question from somebody asking if rebreather divers would be interested in a longer-burning light, if someone came up with a regularly manufactured one. I don't read that Perrone wants one for himself (although perhaps he does). I don't think there is anything wrong with someone having an active curiosity about things, even those currently beyond one's reach. After all, am I wrong for having done tons of reading about decompression theory and technical diving and cave diving, even though my skills aren't there yet?

Let's go back and read his original post, shall we? Here it is:

While not strictly a rebreather question, I have a question for those of you who routinely push your canister lights beyond 4 hours.

What are you using? I suppose the 13.5A/10w HID would give enough time, and it might be close with an 18w at the same amperage. I had a conversation over the weekend with a light builder about the possibility of a custom light canister for driving the 21w HID I am looking to buy. It seemed doable, and then it struck me that this might be something RB divers would be interested in.

So how about it? Would you go back to carrying the larger SLA sized canisters to have 8+ hours burntime on your 21w HIDs? I'm not talking a return to the days of the AUL Spectrum lights, but something larger than the common 9A and 13A canisters we see commonly now.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Now then--to sum up. He's looking for a canister light that will burn longer than 4 hours and he is planning to buy a 21w HID light head. Salvo and Sartek both make a 21w HID head, but Perrone himself rules out Sartek in Post #5. That leaves only the Salvo. If one takes the time to read Salvo's web page you will see that they have posted burn times for all their lights (yes, even the 21w ones) and that they already manufacture a 21w HID that burns for 5 hours. Halcyon also makes an 18w HID that burns for 6.5 hours. So why then does Perrone post that question here as if he's searching for a cure for cancer? The answer to his problem is available as an OTS product!

He then goes on to ask if people are carrying SLA batteries to drive their 21w light heads for 8+ hours. Here's a tip: There's a reason that Salvo doesn't even offer SLA batteries anymore. An SLA pack that would drive a 21w HID for 8+ hours would be HUGE. NiMH and LIon batteries offer longer burn times in smaller packages--that's why people are using them. Consider this. Halcyon makes an SLA pack (the Proteus 6) that they offer with an 18w HID head. They list the burn time at 120 minutes. The Proteus 6 is already bigger and heavier than a 13.5A NiMH pack. Just think how much larger the pack and canister would have to be in order to drive that head for 8+ hours. I'm not a light builder but it seems that it would need to be on the order of 4 times larger than the 10lb Proteus 6. Who wants to carry a 40lb canister around?!?!

All this lighting information is readily available on the web sites of the manufacturers in question. Perrone could have answered his own question in less time that it took him to start this thread.

Oh and let's not forget about how the thread then progresses to Perrone's discussion of CCR units. He acts (in Post #20) like he has some secret Megalodon scrubber up his sleeve. "PM me." Please. But as soon as someone (WeDiveBC)calls him to the carpet about his erroneous scrubber data he cops out with "I just came here asking about a light." If you don't know what you're talking about sit down and shut up.

Clearly, Perrone wants to be a technical/cave diver. To my knowledge, he is not cave certified. If I'm wrong about that I'm sure he'll tell me, and I'll have some crow to eat. As I mentioned in my previous post, Perrone has tried to get an AOW card from my wife. He schedules the class an then waves off at the last minute. To my knowledge he's not an RB diver either. There's no reason in the world why he couldn't be both, but he's got a long way to go to get there. He should be diving his butt off and going after all the training he can get his hands on, not worrying about lighting issues that he might face in a few years. If he were actually planning those dives, he would be far more concerned with things like retaining warmth for a dive of that duration, deco considerations, oxygen exposure, etc. And if he were going to solicit advice for those concerns, at that level, he damn sure shouldn't be doing it here. The people who do that kind of diving tend to be pretty closed mouthed around people they don't know.

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone having an active curiosity about things, even those currently beyond one's reach. After all, am I wrong for having done tons of reading about decompression theory and technical diving and cave diving, even though my skills aren't there yet?

You are absolutely right--there is nothing wrong with you (or anyone else for that matter) being curious about things that are beyond one's reach. I think it's great. However, I haven't seen you asking for advice on how to provide adequate lighting for your 4+ hour RB cave dives at 200 feet either. If you do, I'll call you an internet idiot too.

Okay, since I've taken a healthy swipe at Perrone, let me make one last point. Although his profile doesn't say it, I happen to know that Perrone lives in the Tallahassee, FL area. I live in Pensacola, which is about 2.5 hours away. There happens to be some GREAT cave diving between here and there. My wife is a cave and a trimix instructor and we are both cave/trimix/RB divers. If Perrone is interested in pursuing such diving we can make it happen. Personally, I would be happy to assist/mentor him in any way that I can. Perrone, if you'll drop me a PM I'd be happy to help.

Brian