Liveaboard tipping, what is the local custom?

[Lorenzoid]

If you consider it as charity, so be it. At least I like the idea of donating to people that make good effort to get it rather than donating to charity that I may not even know how much the actual money be filtered down to the real needy. I feel good about it, so do they from looking at their expression and how their are treating me.

Makes sense to me. I, too, would rather donate to people I see making a good effort to support themselves and maybe also avoid dealing unscrupulous or inefficient charities. I just wish there were a way to do it that is disassociated from a tip on my liveaboard.

In the end you do what you please. It is your vacation. If you don't feel right to give as much as other would, just don't do it. You already paid the whole expensive trip. What would they do if you don't tip at all? Deny you on booking your next trip?

I agree we will all do as we please. I already said in my first post above that I have been tipping 10% because that's what I understand (correctly or incorrectly) the generally accepted amount has become on Indonesian liveaboards these days. The rest of my comments are just pointing out the deficiencies in this practice.

 

[Luko]

So you base part of your decision in how much you tip on how poor you believe the people are? In my view, that is the definition of charity, not tipping. I am more than happy to contribute to Indonesia's economy--I agree they need it--and maybe I would even make a donation to a local charity, but I don't take their relative poverty compared to people in some other countries into consideration in deciding how much I tip.
....
Comparing the practice of tipping as the scheme works in the US for a certain category of employee with tipping as it may be practiced elsewhere in the world is comparing apples to oranges.

Could not agree more!

I have in mind a german customer who I met earlier this year explaining that he did two liveaboards on a similar itinerary : one german owned, the other american owned, his impression was that everything was the same except that the american liveaboard enforced 10%-15% tipping at the end... so the conclusion was at he would come back with the german boat.

15 years ago when the american crowd could not even locate Indonesia on a dive map, there was no tipping discussion likeso, you gave your guide a "money reward" that was equivalent maybe to 20USD at the end of your week diving when you had a great time and good contact with him.
Now I see some american managed resorts advisng 10% tip which I find completely ridiculous (since it's based on a price that has no economical relation to the local habits... I mean paying some resorts 200-300USD per night sounds completely crazy to any indonesian) and remote to the past habits.
When you add 10% tipping in your country, it's based on the cost of life : the waiter in Europe/US pays his beer/food the same price you do; How many indonesians can afford a resort pricing even 100USD per night ? Or even a Nasi Goreng priced 150kIDR in some resorts??

Any reason put forward to justify this level of tipping is what I would call imported economic imperialism.

 

[Dan]

Could not agree more!

I have in mind a german customer who I met earlier this year explaining that he did two liveaboards on a similar itinerary : one german owned, the other american owned, his impression was that everything was the same except that the american liveaboard enforced 10%-15% tipping at the end... so the conclusion was at he would come back with the german boat.

15 years ago when the american crowd could not even locate Indonesia on a dive map, there was no tipping discussion likeso, you gave your guide a "money reward" that was equivalent maybe to 20USD at the end of your week diving when you had a great time and good contact with him.
Now I see some american managed resorts advisng 10% tip which I find completely ridiculous (since it's based on a price that has no economical relation to the local habits... I mean paying some resorts 200-300USD per night sounds completely crazy to any indonesian) and remote to the past habits.
When you add 10% tipping in your country, it's based on the cost of life : the waiter in Europe/US pays his beer/food the same price you do; How many indonesians can afford a resort pricing even 100USD per night ? Or even a Nasi Goreng priced 150kIDR in some resorts??

Any reason put forward to justify this level of tipping is what I would call imported economic imperialism.

PM me the liveaboards or dive resorts that "enforced" 10-15% tipping and I would stay the h*ll out of them. There are plenty competitions out there. They are not going to survive by doing that kind of business. Tipping should be an honor system, not "enforced". I just imagine the crew would behave like, well, I'll get at least 10% tip regardless, so who care about giving good service or not?

Even here in USA, I haven't encountered such dive operation in Texas, Florida, California, and North Carolina. They may mention that they would appreciate it. Even then, they don't mention how much. I'm the one often ask other divers to follow what the local customary rate.

 

[matts1w]

I am very, very opinionated about this….my flame suit is on too. I am American and waited tables and bartended for many, many years. One can safely say I am a big tipper. In the US I always tip at least 20 percent/a dollar a drink.

At most proper restaurants in Indonesia they include a 20 percent "service charge." If this is the case it will be on your bill and there is no need to tip.

Realize if you leave money on the table or do not get your change there is a good chance it will not get to where you intended it. It MAY go into a pot that is divided amongst they employees at the end of the night, end of the month, or at Ramadan/Christmas. There is also a solid chance it goes right into the boss' pocket. If I am out in a pub with a bunch of friends and a waitress/waiter has been busing a$$ all night schlepping drinks to us, I will slip him/her a 10 percent tip on the sly. That way the server gets it and can decide where it goes.

The reason many dive resorts use blank envelopes and tip boxes is to keep things fair. Turns out older, more experienced guides would often check who is coming and use their seniority to be assigned to certain nationalities…ie Americans. Consequently Europeans and especially Asian guests were passed by to less experienced guides. Anonymous group tipping puts an end to that.

My experience is if you tip your guide/crew 100.000 per day you are tipping well. If you slip you guide a little more you are going to make them very happy, or put them in a moral dilemma. Usually it is best to use the box.

Finally, if "local custom" means to tip like a local that is easy. Indonesians do not tip.

 

[billt4sf]

My experience is if you tip your guide/crew 100.000 per day you are tipping well. If you slip you guide a little more you are going to make them very happy, or put them in a moral dilemma. Usually it is best to use the box.

Finally, if "local custom" means to tip like a local that is easy. Indonesians do not tip.

Matts -- 100.000 means 100K IDR?

- Bill

 

[billt4sf]

I am very, very opinionated about this….my flame suit is on too. I am American and waited tables and bartended for many, many years. One can safely say I am a big tipper. In the US I always tip at least 20 percent/a dollar a drink.

At most proper restaurants in Indonesia they include a 20 percent "service charge." If this is the case it will be on your bill and there is no need to tip.

Realize if you leave money on the table or do not get your change there is a good chance it will not get to where you intended it. It MAY go into a pot that is divided amongst they employees at the end of the night, end of the month, or at Ramadan/Christmas. There is also a solid chance it goes right into the boss' pocket. If I am out in a pub with a bunch of friends and a waitress/waiter has been busing a$$ all night schlepping drinks to us, I will slip him/her a 10 percent tip on the sly. That way the server gets it and can decide where it goes.

The reason many dive resorts use blank envelopes and tip boxes is to keep things fair. Turns out older, more experienced guides would often check who is coming and use their seniority to be assigned to certain nationalities…ie Americans. Consequently Europeans and especially Asian guests were passed by to less experienced guides. Anonymous group tipping puts an end to that.

My experience is if you tip your guide/crew 100.000 per day you are tipping well. If you slip you guide a little more you are going to make them very happy, or put them in a moral dilemma. Usually it is best to use the box.

Finally, if "local custom" means to tip like a local that is easy. Indonesians do not tip.

You might say: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I don't. I do tip in Indo, depending on the circumstance. At the same time, even though I am an American, I do not import the 10% custom here.

- Bill

 

[matts1w]

Matts -- 100.000 means 100K IDR?

- Bill

Correct. This much.

 

[billt4sf]

My experience is if you tip your guide/crew 100.000 per day you are tipping well. If you slip you guide a little more you are going to make them very happy, or put them in a moral dilemma. Usually it is best to use the box.

100K is about $7.50 USD. We usually tip about $10/day per pax. Not 10% of the total LOB rate.

- Bill

 

[Lorenzoid]

100K is about $7.50 USD. We usually tip about $10/day per pax. Not 10% of the total LOB rate.

- Bill

I see on xe.com that the IDR dropped by half its value against the dollar in the last few years.

Liveaboards aside, when I did my land-based trip on Bali, I tipped private guides IDR 100k per day per person, because I had the foresight to ask on SB, and that's what you people told me was typical.

 

[Luko]

I see on xe.com that the IDR dropped by half its value against the dollar in the last few years.

I would rather state that the $ slid downwards against all other currencies (except may be the £).
Just relax, your president is doing his utmost to make the USD weak again (ie. in a couple of years probably 30% less than 2016, currently 10% down since he's stepped in and ongoing).

The reason many dive resorts use blank envelopes and tip boxes is to keep things fair. Turns out older, more experienced guides would often check who is coming and use their seniority to be assigned to certain nationalities…ie Americans. Consequently Europeans and especially Asian guests were passed by to less experienced guides. Anonymous group tipping puts an end to that.

That precisely shows how imported customs can change habits...
I also have another example in mind where the same company caters to multiple resorts, a laidback resort with only european, asian or Oz/Kiwis guests supposed to be poor tippers, another pompous one catering to a richer, older, less adventurous and mostly north american crowd, though better tippers despite the scandalous prices of this op.
Guess what ; the atmosphere of the first is better, the guides are more relaxed and offer similar if not more friendly services.
Can anybody imagine that in some parts of the world humans relations are not driven by tips, that the important thing is to have your customer happy, to maintain a friendly relationship with the people you're spending the whole day with, without expecting him/her to pay extra in the end?
For who's not convinced about that try to force anyone working in Japan or Korea a tip and you will be surprized what happens next...

My experience is if you tip your guide/crew 100.000 per day you are tipping well.

That's also my experience and what I usually do REGARDLESS OF THE PRICE I PAID TO THE OPERATOR,
Indonesian nominal banknote values really help that matter at not making a tipping faux-pas, It's also a symbol that states "Buddy, you deserve the highest banknote available in your country for everyday you were providing me fun". Symbols also matter regardles of their fluctuating value.