LMI Mako Shooting SD.. Wondering What's Next?

[ScubaVideo]

Most of my diving has been with a video camera in hand. My setup is a LMI Mako housing with a Sony DCR-PC110.

I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of money on a new HD system, every time the industry improves the quality of the cameras, I have to start all over. This housing only works with that camera, if the camera goes so does the housing and visa-versa.

So what kind of systems are out there that will shoot HD and not cost an arm and a leg? I live near where LMI is made so they and their best buddies down the road Backscatter have always been where I have shopped. But those prices just keep going up and up.

Recently I asked them about the free service on my Mako I never had done, they said that was too long ago and expired. I don't see an expiration date on the card! Considering that I have spent well over 12k on LMI at Backscatter, you would think they would jump over backwards to have me back in the store to open my wallet again. Well now I just have a bad taste for it and want stay on the cheaper side.

So what's out there I should look at?

An old clip from some video.

Full Version

 

[diversteve]

Define cheaper...

One option is the Canon MF30/MF300 in their WP-V2 housing. Full AVCHD CF memory camcorder. But you probably won't like the limited controls or the 130' depth rating after shooting your Mako. Street price you can get both for around $1000. My buddy shoots the previous model (MF200/WPV1) he shot it in T/C last May in natural light - some really good footage until the light fall-off below about 80'. He's now looking at lights.

The current best deal I've seen lately is the flatport Amphibico EVO HD Elite for $1495. It's a cost reduced version of the regular EVO (I shoot one) 330' depth rating, electronic controls including one-touch MWB with certain Sony models, internal red filter, microphone etc. It only pairs with the HDR-CX550, HDR-XR550 or the new(er) MC-50 so a minimum of $2500+ out the door. Abe's of Maine has the CX550 for $879 currently.

Oh and you'll need a fast dual-core or quad-core PC to edit the AVCHD files easily. Or the Mac equivalent.

For $1000 more you can get the housing with a matched port. Which gets into LMI territory.

Canon HFS10/11 in a Gates housing seems to be another popular option. If you can stand going to the dark side (mechanical controls) after shooting LMI...

 

[ronscuba]

Most of my diving has been with a video camera in hand. My setup is a LMI Mako housing with a Sony DCR-PC110.

I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of money on a new HD system, every time the industry improves the quality of the cameras, I have to start all over. This housing only works with that camera, if the camera goes so does the housing and visa-versa.

....

I hear you about new cameras always coming out and not wanting to get a new system each time. It can get annoying and expensive. One thing I've noticed over the years. Pay attention to big changes in technology vs. minor improvements. When did the quality of the video really improve ? SD to HD was a big change. In the consumer market, everything since has been minor in my opinion.

I think your PC110 is around 10 yrs old ? How long would you want your system to last ?

 

[MikeMeagher]

Canon HFS10/11 in a Gates housing seems to be another popular option. If you can stand going to the dark side (mechanical controls) after shooting LMI...

I'm one of those "dark side" evil empire types.. that reminds me of a funny thing that happenned a couple of months ago. A friend of mine and I were on a dive boat the other day.. after the dive he compained that he didnt get any footage.. seems the fancy dancy high tech electronic hand controller of his housing stopped working. Turns out that the battery was dead in it. I told him "bummer".. and proceeded to rub it in about the great footage that I got from my "all manual" Gates housing that very same day.

 

[MikeMeagher]

Define cheaper...
Oh and you'll need a fast dual-core or quad-core PC to edit the AVCHD files easily. Or the Mac equivalent.
:

Do keep this person's quote in mind.. from what I've heard. .it is VERY true. If you go to a non taped based HD camcorder shooting the AVCHD format... dont be suprised if you have to buy a high end computer with a hot graphics card and some decent editing software. Factor that into the budget as well.

The AVCHD format is a very good.. yet very agressive compression scheme.. which takes a powerful processor to work with in real time editing. Much more so than a HDV tape based camcorders M2T format tape. Some folks work around this by converting their AVCHD file to M2T or working with a proxy file. Seems to me this work around defeats the purpose of using a file based format. Really slows down the workflow and you no longer are using 1st generation material. Also, if you plan to import video from your camcorder to a computer, for disaster recover purposes you will want to have 2 copies of all files on separate storage devices. Otherwise you are at risk of data loss if a HD were to fail.

I'm considered by some to be a dinosaur... still shooting HDV tape.. My reasons: I am still using a 4 year old computer to edit the files with no problems, as my old dual core XP machine runs them just fine. HDV tapes are cheap at tapeandmedia.com. And I dont have to worry about making 2x copies of my data files (If I had shot AVCHD) for archiving purposes. My HDV tape serves as one of my archives. Whats on the computer is the other. The downside to a tape camera, is storing a small box of tapes on week long dive trip. (but thats much less hassel than lugging a laptop and portable storage drive), there is risk of mechanical issues in my camcorder (why I purchased a used similiar camera on ebay as a backup)

 

[ScubaVideo]

My SD system is a dedicated P4 with XP Pro, 4GB, multiple 2 terabyte drives and a Matrox RT.X100 capture card. This works fine for SD capture and I edit with Premiere Pro 1.5.

I also have a core 2 duo 3.33GHz machine with 8GB, Win7 x64 with limited HD space (2 one terabyte drives). I have Premiere CS4 on this just to learn the newer software - seems much easier in Premiere Pro.

In any case, if I did upgrade to HD I would probably skip the tapes and go with memory card. I would rather buy enough of those one time then a box of tapes each time I take a trip. Both the tape and memory sticks will eventually fail, as do HD's. The idea is to have many backups onto different mediums as you can. I use Carbonite for video stored on my current machine, but it really is not too useful when you want to remove it from the machine for permanent storage. I could just use their business account or create a second account and put it on a storage server. I also have a core 2 duo machine running Win7 x64 and use it as a virtual machine server, it has plenty of room for additional HD's and could be used to backup my other machines videos. Then upload that to Carbonite for permanent online storage. I secure additional backups onto HD's and keep them with my miniDV tapes in a fire/water proof safe. Eventually, the tapes will die though. They are good for 10 to 15 years under normal conditions.

I would not rely on having tapes and HD's only. The tapes will die, its just a matter of time. HD's not in use though, should last a life time. The problem is they have a failure rate that increases each year once in use. It would be pretty terrible to store video on an HD and want to get some video off it only to find that it is the unlucky one and dies while trying to get the video you want. If it is also over that 10 -15 year life span for tapes, you may be out of luck. The online solutions will add a 3rd type of potential recovery.

I'm sure if I upgrade to HD, I will dedicate either my current core 2 duo or build an i7 quad just for it and maybe get another Matrox XT-whatever they are u$ing card to handle the HD.

I heard a recommendation to capture video at 540p instead of 1080p when your publishing just to the internet. HD on the internet is not the same as your HDTV and does not need the same quality. But, you should also be able to make your edits at this lower resolution and then have Premiere re-capture at full res just the final edit. I have not tried that with CS4 or Pro but it use to work fine back in version 6 or so.

 

[diversteve]

I'm one of those "dark side" evil empire types.. that reminds me of a funny thing that happenned a couple of months ago. A friend of mine and I were on a dive boat the other day.. after the dive he compained that he didnt get any footage.. seems the fancy dancy high tech electronic hand controller of his housing stopped working. Turns out that the battery was dead in it. I told him "bummer".. and proceeded to rub it in about the great footage that I got from my "all manual" Gates housing that very same day.

That's why I shoot Amphibico instead of Light&Motion - no batteries needed.

 

[ScubaVideo]

That's why I shoot Amphibico instead of Light&Motion - no batteries needed.

Is it mechanical? Or does it work off the camera battery?

I was looking at the Sony HDR-CX550V and curious about the flash memory. The memory is not removable for long term storage Can the video be transferred to the SD or Memory Stick? If I have to capture it off to protect it while on a trip, is that a 1:1 capture?

 

[ScubaVideo]

Define cheaper...

One option is the Canon MF30/MF300 in their WP-V2 housing. Full AVCHD CF memory camcorder. But you probably won't like the limited controls or the 130' depth rating after shooting your Mako. Street price you can get both for around $1000. My buddy shoots the previous model (MF200/WPV1) he shot it in T/C last May in natural light - some really good footage until the light fall-off below about 80'. He's now looking at lights.

The current best deal I've seen lately is the flatport Amphibico EVO HD Elite for $1495. It's a cost reduced version of the regular EVO (I shoot one) 330' depth rating, electronic controls including one-touch MWB with certain Sony models, internal red filter, microphone etc. It only pairs with the HDR-CX550, HDR-XR550 or the new(er) MC-50 so a minimum of $2500+ out the door. Abe's of Maine has the CX550 for $879 currently.

Oh and you'll need a fast dual-core or quad-core PC to edit the AVCHD files easily. Or the Mac equivalent.

For $1000 more you can get the housing with a matched port. Which gets into LMI territory.

Canon HFS10/11 in a Gates housing seems to be another popular option. If you can stand going to the dark side (mechanical controls) after shooting LMI...

The Amphibico looks pretty good - the one with the port. The Canon setup is probably a little limited for me, especially with a need for lights.

Have you ever seen any video shot with a Canon MKII? I really like the idea of that camera - lots of versatility plus I have been wanting one for break time from the ocean. Paired with maybe a Sea & Sea MDX-5D MKII Housing for Canon 5D MKII

 

[ronscuba]

The AVCHD format is a very good.. yet very agressive compression scheme.. which takes a powerful processor to work with in real time editing. Much more so than a HDV tape based camcorders M2T format tape. Some folks work around this by converting their AVCHD file to M2T or working with a proxy file. Seems to me this work around defeats the purpose of using a file based format. Really slows down the workflow and you no longer are using 1st generation material....

Converting has 2 large pluses. The software is cheap. Around $100. The converted files are uncompressed which makes them easier to edit and also better to edit if you are making corrections to color, contrast, etc..

For UW, I still shoot HDV. Topside I shoot a small AVCHD camcorder and DSLR, converting the files with $100 Cineform S/W. I'm still using my 4+ year old computer and Sony Vegas 8.

Many people go your route and upgrade HW. In the end all that really matters is how your finished video looks. You can create great edited video either way. Just depends where you want to spend your money.