Local takes a hit

[crab lover]

You know, the human body is a very odd machine. Percentages, tables, math, conservative/liberal, does not cover every situation. Sometimes s*** happens with no explanation. I am just glad the rockjock is doing well now and I have since put the number for Hickam's chamber in my cell phone. We are looking forward to seeing you back in the water Jay!

 

[Kevrumbo]

I've done Sea Tiger and Kewalo Pipe on 32% Nitrox analogous to Jay's Profile, and on 21/35 with 50% Deco --no mishaps other than losing a Jetfin. Used Ratio Deco/MDL algorithm in both instances.

Do a search on TDS for Inner Ear DCS: some interesting anecdotes & experiences over there. . .

 

[Cacia]

aghhh

don't make us search, just TELL US, Kev.

some on...spoon feed me, please.

besides, if I can't go into DIR, i am sure not going in "there"

those techies are crabby peeps. I count on you for the kernels of wisdom.

I can dive safely on crumbs..

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I am NOT crabby, dammit...

 

[Kevrumbo]

To differentiate IEDCS [Inner Ear DCS] from barotrauma, the vertigo or deafness stabilizes or improves on surface in barotrauma, prior to treatment. This is because the barotrauma is caused by a gas pocket in the middle ear that can vent via the eustachian tube. IEDCS is caused by gas bubbles inside the cochlea and cannot be vented, it has to be removed by desaturating the cochlear fluid. Thus, over time IEDCS worsens without recompression, because the bubbles in the ear continue to grow or do not change in size. In barotrauma, even a completed blocked eustachian tube will leak a small amount of gas over time, reducing symptoms without recompression.

In time duration on the surface, IEDCS symptoms worsen, whereas barotrauma tends to remain unchanged or recedes. PLF [Peri Lymph Fistula] symptoms do subtely improve but not much, particularly if the ossicles are dislodged. Many supposed PLFs have spontaneous recovery [documented injury verified by audiometry & typanometry and ENG, that spontaneously improves. Surgery is not always needed in PLF.]

from Diver "Saturation", Physician & Med School Faculty

 

[scottitheduck]

As someone with a few YEARS of experience doing the dives Jay did......

Let me give you all a normal day for me.

Dive 1 (Seatiger or YO) Max Depth: 100ft BT 20-35 min on AIR.

Surface Inverval: 45min

Dive 2 (Shallow) Max Depth: 60ft BT 40-45 min (again on AIR)

Now, does my Suunto go into deco on the second dive? Sometimes..... but the point is, we can't blame Sherm or Jay for poor planning. In fact in the years I have put in working on a dive boat I have found that the Suunto profiles are WAY more conservative than any other computer on the market.

What makes me angry is that the 10% issue is hogwash. PADI tables set NDL's at a percentage less than 1% if I was taught my deco theory correctly. Furthermore, Jay and Sherm know heaps more about more complicated planning.

Just had to weigh in (albeit a bit late). Jim, send us some bowling pictures to lighten the mood!

Aloha,

G

 

[Sloth]

I did some googling and it seems that there is a pretty established myth about the Navy tables being factored around a 5% DCS chance. No where did I see any mention of 10%.

What I did see was some reports listing the Navy tables that Navy divers use based somewhere between 2.3% to 5.8% chance for DCS. This number was for actual Navy divers with deco chamber support and not the publicly released Navy tables. One source stated that the Navy tables released to the public was based on a >1% DCS chance.

This was on the intertubes so it must be true

 

[Lopaka]

To differentiate IEDCS [Inner Ear DCS] from barotrauma, the vertigo or deafness stabilizes or improves on surface in barotrauma, prior to treatment. This is because the barotrauma is caused by a gas pocket in the middle ear that can vent via the eustachian tube. IEDCS is caused by gas bubbles inside the cochlea and cannot be vented, it has to be removed by desaturating the cochlear fluid. Thus, over time IEDCS worsens without recompression, because the bubbles in the ear continue to grow or do not change in size. In barotrauma, even a completed blocked eustachian tube will leak a small amount of gas over time, reducing symptoms without recompression.

from Diver "Saturation", Physician & Med School Faculty

That is a very concise description. Did not see anything nearly so definitive in my searching about five years ago.

How old is this article?

 

[nereas]

I did some googling and it seems that there is a pretty established myth about the Navy tables being factored around a 5% DCS chance. No where did I see any mention of 10%.

What I did see was some reports listing the Navy tables that Navy divers use based somewhere between 2.3% to 5.8% chance for DCS. This number was for actual Navy divers with deco chamber support and not the publicly released Navy tables. One source stated that the Navy tables released to the public was based on a >1% DCS chance.

This was on the intertubes so it must be true

Yup, 6% for them, which I would equate to 10% for you all. Nice research Sloth thanks.

 

[Cacia]

In time duration on the surface, IEDCS symptoms worsen,

Kev, thanks for distilling that, I will be able to remember those key points.

You guys----

when you post, you are hopefully inviting discussion, that is the whole point.

so, if someone raises something you think is wrong, then you should ask them why they believe this, etc. That is much more illuminating than trying to run somebody out of the thread.

When does this thread get interesting and lively? Take Sloth's post for example, I learned something there. I'm starting to think tech diving makes people touchy, you'd think it would work the opposite way. (tough guys=thick skin)

Jay, I am curious if the Air Force bellies up and pays for a bubble echo?
I'm wondering how pro-active they will be ruling out a PFO.