Looking Back - Did Your OW Teach You Enough?

[Insta-Gator]

Sherman, set the "Way Back Machine" to 1989.

Ok, Mr. Peabody.

(whirrr, click, blink, ding)

My OW instructor was a hoot (RIP) and always encouraged us with "Let's Rock 'n Roll" and demonstrated plenty of enthusiasm. But don't think he didn't take his job seriously. I can only hope that today's OW instruction is as competent as that which we received. Nah, I didn't know everything. Wasn't expected to. But we were thoroughly versed in the basics and drilled enough in the pool to have plenty of comfort and confidence. When we got to the OW cert dives, it was a piece of cake.

The key, in my opinion is to convey knowledge and practice drills until the student is blindly comfortable with what they are doing. That's the foundation for the diver's personal development.

 

[Thalassamania]

PADI OW certifies you to dive with an equally certified buddy in open water up to a depth of 18 meters. Nothing mentioned about temperature, visibility or current. That first of all.

Second of all I was simply illustrating a point. I could have said "If I had a card that allows me to skydive naked into a kiddie pool filled with razor blades, but if I was uncomfortable with that, I simply won't." Maybe that would have been clearer for you?

The certification to dive, "in conditions that are the same or better than those you trained in" is just so much claptrap. While I agree with the concept, in practice it is more a way to try ti assure future business from the student than anything else. It makes more sense to teach people how to learn and grow as that they can slowly extend themselves into conditions and situations that they had not been formally trained to deal with.

Working out what belongs in an OW course curriculum is an interesting design challenge, for sure. You need to balance safety and skills versus length of course and associated cost. I think a good balance has generally been struck. If you are talking someone who does a resort course, and then doesn't dive again for a year, I think you could argue that the more skills given, the more there is to forget. Our sport has such low incident rates that something seems to have been done right.

I see the point, though, about allowing any kind of conditions to a dive on a basic OW card. I did a dive not long after getting certed that was to 20m, with current and strong surge, on a wreck, and it was a fairly brief and unenjoyable dive as I was so task loaded with a DM who wanted to set speed records to boot. It was a safe and even benign dive, but I was very unskilled for it.

We are about to take some more instruction, being at the point where after 20 or so dives we feel like we want to build skills a bit more. We practice skills on every dive, and I'm sure to do at least two mask removal/replace skills each dive because it was something that initially made me uncomfortable. So we are looking at buoyancy/trim, propulsion, buddy and nav skills, as well as instruction on moving to a long hose setup and shooting a DSMB. I don't feel that these were omissions in our initial instruction, though, but rather just that our diving is slowly evolving as we get more comfortable.

That said, I remain very suspicious of three day OW programs. I'm glad we did five. I think the OW skills are comprehensive and basic, but I really don't see how you could get them all properly in a fast-and-cheap type of course. It smacks of getting certification rather than skillset to me.

I suggest that attempting to "balance safety and skills versus length of course and associated cost" is both unrealistic and basically dishonest. I have never done so and I suspect that in most cases shop instructors don't either. In my case I had the freedom to decide exactly what the level of safety and skills would be without any concerns over course length or cost ... optimization was solely base on student safety and need. But then most other instructor that I have known have not had to do so either, though their situation is different, they are told by the shop that employes them (oh, that's right they're not employees, so why are they being told what to do?) what the time and skills are to be.

Had a very decent and patient OW instructor and my wife and I did private lessons. The only think I think (not sure if they teach it during OW or not) was CESA. We did have a tutorial on it but never actually had to do it. And they did not do it in advanced open water either.

But I think our OW course was what we needed to begin our adventure.

If you did not get CESA to the level that you were comfortable performing it I would have to describe the course you took as lacking and even in violation of standards. But you see, that's the problem, in most cases, as long as the instructor projects a proper happy face and makes the students "feel good" what is actually taught and mastered is irreverent since the student(s) is in no position to make an educated evaluation.

I have to agree with Pane. I got one on one instruction and I feel I learned the basics pretty well. Certainly enough to be able to complete a dive safely with someone MORE experienced that I. Enough to complete a dive safely with someone with exactly the same experience??? Probably, but I sure wouldnt have been comfortable attempting that and I havent seen even one (in my admittedly limited experience) newly minted OW student that should really be turned loose with another newly minted open water student in the ocean. Yes, in most cases that could be done and they would probably survive unless they didnt realize their own limitations and decided to push the limits.

I believe that it is quite possible to turn a "newly minted" student loose with a similarly trained "newly minted" student, I just have a rather old fashioned view of what the skill set of a "newly minted" student should be.

I believed I had an excellent instructor. Having recently been a DM intern with her, I found that I was correct. But in the first year or so after OW I often thought "Why didn't she tell us that?" As Bob said, you learn so much more AFTER certification. I would assume it is related to the apparently much shorter class times than decades ago. I continue to practise the skills and read a page of one of my course manuals (plus a page of the EFR manual) each day to continually reinforce stuff. But I am one who has a poor memory and studies stuff a lot. And I practise tying the 3 knots we leaned in the Search & Recovery dive of AOW--though I may never use them. Boy can I tie a bowline.

 

[Bob DBF]

I believe that it is quite possible to turn a "newly minted" student loose with a similarly trained "newly minted" student, I just have a rather old fashioned view of what the skill set of a "newly minted" student should be.

As do I.

I'll just drop in the WRSTC abilities of an OW diver. PADI, SSI and others sign on to their standards.

Open water certification qualifies a certified diver to procure air, equipment, and other services and engage in recreational open water diving without supervision. It is the intent of this standard that certified open water divers shall have received training in the fundamentals of recreational diving from an instructor (see definition). A certified open water diver is qualified to apply the knowledge and skills outlined in this standard to plan, conduct, and log open-water, no-required decompression dives when properly equipped, and accompanied by another certified diver.

If anyone can not dive to this standard, then they have a beef with their respective agency and instructor.

When I finally got certified in '80, the class was not short or easy. It trained the students to be able to dive in the Pacific off the North coast (Mendocino Co.) of CA, and if the instructor didn't think you were up to it, you didn't get an OW card untill you were. I know he didn't care to have his students the object of a recovery. At the time it was NAUI/PADI and may be why they dropped PADI.

I learned the most in my first class when I went to SCUBA school of Dad, he was one really tough SOB.




Bob
-------------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[kathydee]

At the conclusion of my OW class, I felt like I'd learned everything I needed to know. But if that were true, how come I've learned so much since?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm with Bob on this one!

Looking back, I would have been much better off if OW had imparted the full consequence of CO2 build up, more navigation skills, and a basic introduction to different propulsion techniques and trim.

 

[gcarter]

I learned enough yes. Enough to fall in love and set me down the path of no money .

Now at 50+ dives my skills still need A LOT of work. My SAC blows. I still spend way too much time screwing with my bouyancy. But I get more comfortable with every dive, and I stay within the limits of my capabilities. I have declined to do dives I have not felt myself ready for.

OW training does deliver enough to the beginning student - who pays attention to the material and actually cares to heed the warnings and admonishments. For those who do not pay attention or heed, adding skills or repetitions would not change the fact that they will become Darwin award winners in waiting. But even for THOSE folks, the relatively low rate of incidents amongst occasional / vacation divers suggests that the training they receive is working.

 

[mainedvr]

Two years ago as an new OW diver I would have no way to know if that was part of the course or not, maybe the students should be given a syllabus or a list of required skills and they can check them off as they go. Plus, now with internet and everything I think it would be a good idea if the agencies send out a survey to a newly certified student and ask if certain core requirements were covered, or even send a paper questionair in the mail if an individual does not want it via email.

I feel if need be I would be comfortable to make a CESA, but now I am going to have to ask an instructor to go over it with me and my wife.
Good thread.

Originally Posted by mainedvrHad a very decent and patient OW instructor and my wife and I did private lessons. The only think I think (not sure if they teach it during OW or not) was CESA. We did have a tutorial on it but never actually had to do it. And they did not do it in advanced open water either.

But I think our OW course was what we needed to begin our adventure.
If you did not get CESA to the level that you were comfortable performing it I would have to describe the course you took as lacking and even in violation of standards. But you see, that's the problem, in most cases, as long as the instructor projects a proper happy face and makes the students "feel good" what is actually taught and mastered is irreverent since the student(s) is in no position to make an educated evaluation.

 

[BabyDuck]

i was very lucky, because i didn't really do any instructor comparison shopping but got a good one by pure luck. not perfect, because he was unable to use his crystal ball to start me off in a backplate and long hose (i had to do that myself, dive 22 & about 75), but the instruction was vary good. it helped that it was a private class & i didn't find much of it hard.

but my best good luck was finding excellent mentors the next month who helped me for years. so i've been really lucky, but it isn't luck that is that hard to claim for yourself - go find excellent mentors!

 

[fire_diver]

I don't think most prospective divers do any comparisons other than cost. I don't blame anyone for this approach, I did the same thing. There are too many variables in shops and instructors for someone new to understand unless they have a long-time diver guiding them in the process.

 

[BabyDuck]

i didn't even compare cost. i found him on yahoo personals. pure luck.

 

[LoonDiver]

No, my OW training definitely did not teach me "enough".

We were told that we should have buddies while diving, but were not taught anything about buddy awareness and didn't follow buddy procedures in the pool sessions or in our OW checkout dives.

They told us to clear our ears "early and often" but didn't explain what that meant. I had up and down descents trying to get my ears to clear and thought I just had problem ears...until a DM in Cozumel explained it like this: "One, two, Clear... One, two, Clear...". The Ah-Ha moment -- "often" means more than every 15 feet.

In my OW checkout dives, I didn't have a depth gauge because the computer on the shop's rental gear wasn't working -- they told me it was no big deal -- the instructor told me how long each dive had lasted, how deep I had been and what the temperature was so I could log the dives.

They told us to finish every dive with at least 500 psi in the tank, but didn't tell us how to plan the dive to insure that would happen.

They said overhead environments were a bad idea, but didn't say why or even really emphasize that point. The instructor joked about how he had personally winked at some guidelines and done dives beyond his training.

Neutral Bouyancy? I'd heard the term. We didn't practice it.

The importance of not silting up the viz? The instructor had us go stand on the plane at the bottom of the quarry. Talk about a silted out mess...

Those are the things that jump out at me with a quick think back. I'm sure there's more. I didn't feel ready or "safe" when they handed me my OW card. Two months later I was drift diving in Cozumel. The private DM we hired was little help, but we did fine. It wasn't because we were trained well, just because nothing went wrong. I'm convinced there aren't more accidents on vacation dives simply because 99.99% of the time nothing goes wrong.

I've learned a lot from ScubaBoard, especially the Accidents and Incidents Forum and from additional reading, such as Diver Down and various Scuba blogs. Also from additional training since OW. But I was terribly unprepared after OW. Maybe my OW was particularly bad, but I've read many others' stories of bad training on SB, so it doesn't seem unusual.