m4/3's vs higher end p&s?

[watered down]

hey everyone, im new to the forum but have already looked pretty extensively through some of the material here and its helped me a lot but i have a few questions regarding purchasing either a micro 4/3 such as the epl1 or one of the "higher end" point and shoots like the g12, s95, or p7000.

first off i think im relatively familiar with the trade offs between the two categories but if someone could sum up the correlation between the image sensor size, the number of megapixels, and consequently the image quality that would be great. my understanding is that the sensor in the epl1 is much larger than most point and shoots (g12 and others too?) so in effect it takes noticeably better quality pictures? is that correct?

i would probably be sold on the epl1 except for the fact that i was reading how its autofocus was relatively slow in comparison to others which for me, could be an issue because im a freediver so i dont have an unlimited amount of bottom time. i have gotten my hands on most of these at the store but haven't had practice with them to know what kind of pictures they take.

so i guess the underlying question for me is, will i be disappointed by the image quality of say the g12 in comparison to the epl1 despite the the epl1's rumored slowness? i have a feeling at least some of it will come down to user opinion but if anyone can help clear this up a little it would be greatly appreciate. i hope im posting this in the proper section. thank you all in advance.

 

[tripntx]

I started with Olympus C-7070 and an Olympus C-8080, both of which were pro-consumer level cameras. Moved to a Cannon A720IS, which has manual control. All these p&s had a sensor the size of my finger nail.

Now I'm diving with an Olympus PEN E-PL1. I use a focus light ($139 at Reefphoto), and have no problems with auto focus. E-PL1 does not have the horrible shutter lag like P&S does. Swapping out lens and changing configurations is easy. It is just a much better platform to build upon. I assume if free diving then you are in clear water? If so, auto focus shouldn't be a problem.

With that said, P&S are nice and work very well, but I'm not ever going back to P&S because of shutter lag.

 

[bvanant]

In general bigger is better than smaller and newer is better than older.
Take a look at
DxOMark Sensor For Benchmarking Cameras
and see the results for sensor quality as a function of size/cost/time on the market.

Note these are sensor quality only, NOT PHOTO QUALITY which depends on the thing pointing the camera. You can take good pics with small cameras (ask Jim Lyle, who was LAUPS photographer of the year with an OLY 5050) but it is easier with cameras with bigger sensors.

The main advantage to me of shooting with P&S cameras is that you can get wide and macro on the same dive. The disadvantage is that it is harder to get just the shot you want (at least for me, Pufferfish will have a different take on this of course). I am currently shooting both the 7D and the NEX-5. I love the size and simplicity of the NEX-5 (other than the software) but for shots that I want to print or put into a competition I will take the 7d. The Nex-5 doesn't yet have all the lenses that I want to shoot.

As for shutter lag, the NEX is quite good (yes I know it isn't 4/3, but rather APS) so you won't be disappointed with that aspect.

Bill

 

[under water]

Sensor sizes
Point & Shoot (G12, S95, XZ1, etc) are on bottom row,
Canon T3i, Oly DSLR and PEN (E-PL1/2) top row

As mentioned E-PL1 slowness was fixed in first firmware update several months ago.
There has been lots of recent discussion here on this topic. Just read back a few weeks/months.
Enjoy

 

[Peter Guy]

This issue comes up often and the answers tend to be repeated (not surprisingly). Here is my non-professional, non-expert, take.

Background -- I've been playing with cameras for 50 years and shooting UW with digital cameras for 5. I currently have, and use, an E-PL1 with the kit lens and Oly housing -- and I love it!

The reality is that most of us will never come close to maximizing the potential of any camera we have because they are really that good. However, it is also easier to take "good" images with a camera that has a better lens (system); faster focus; faster shutter response; greater sensitivity (higher effective ISO); etc. That means, the better the camera, the more likely a decent photographer will be able to take a better picture.

My take on the E-PL1 with the kit lens:

a. The focus is fast enough (although could be better and with a focus light, it is pretty darn good);
b. The macro is good enough (although if I was going back to Indonesia to muck dive, I would get the 50mm lens or similar);
c. The WA is good enough (although if I was going to be in clear water, shooting wrecks or in a cave with lots of strobes, I'd get the 9-18 lens or similar).

Each camera has its own advantage -- but, again, the reality, is that the most important "piece of equipment" is the eye behind the lens.

 

[watered down]

thank you bvanat for the link, the visuals in that article are really helpful.

im glad to hear that the autofocus slowness/ lag has been worked on. the epl1 sounds like the most bang for the buck as far as potential for taking good pictures. i haven't seen too much video footage from the epl1 so i would imagine that the slow focus would play a part in the video quality as well? if anyone has some video they could share that would be great. i dive in the gulf of mexico where the viz is generally between 20-80 feet depending on where you are, the weather, and other factors.

thanks again for all the input everyone

 

[under water]

... if anyone has some video they could share that would be great. ...

My first video with the E-PL1 at
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5547196-post7.html

Continuous autofocus with video underwater is not recommended.

 

[davelew]

im glad to hear that the autofocus slowness/ lag has been worked on. the epl1 sounds like the most bang for the buck as far as potential for taking good pictures.

Although the autofocus is better with the EPL1 with the new firmware, the EPL2 with the new generation lens is even faster.

On the other hand, the new generation lens doesn't focus as close as the older lens, so it sacrifices some macro ability.

 

[watered down]

ok, would you say that despite the firmware update the slow(er) AF caused you to either miss a shot or have a video clip come out poorly? granted there are many variables that can have an effect when taking a picture, is the AF still slow enough that its difficult to shoot something like a barracuda on the move or any other fish that isn't staying particularly still such as a shark?

 

[under water]

ok, would you say that despite the firmware update the slow(er) AF caused you to either miss a shot or have a video clip come out poorly? granted there are many variables that can have an effect when taking a picture, is the AF still slow enough that its difficult to shoot something like a barracuda on the move or any other fish that isn't staying particularly still such as a shark?

Don't use continuous autofocus in video. It will cause hunting and distract severely from the video.
Try it, you will see for yourself. It's easy to test and turn off in a store.
Single autofocus is fine, for video and photos. I have never missed a photo due to autofocus speed with the E-PL1. I have seen bad videos, above ground and underwater, by trying continuous autofocus. This is not a problem unique to the E-PL1 and is[-] even worse [/-](pretty bad) with my Canon T2i DSLR.