Mac or PC

[zen_man]

bluesbro1982,

Very well put!
I too, use the "VHS vs. Beta" analogy in discussions about this.

GrumpyOldGuy
I don't want to get into a debate here either. However, I feel compelled to say something when I read remarks like you wrote. I also feel compelled to say something when I read blanket statements like "Buy a Mac" without anything backing that statement up.

Anyways, if your happy with your windows box, more power to ya!

 

[Warthaug]

Hmm, I'm not sure what industry you are in,

Science, specifically biological imaging. We use computers mostly for controlling optical equipment (microscopes, scanners, etc), and for image/video processing (not adobe-style editing, much more technical).

but I worked at a large UC school as the most requested mac tech they had. I also worked PC's, and i currently consult both systems... In the large administration environment, macs were easy to administer via RadminD and remote desktop, and took about the same amount of time (or less) to get fixed versus the pc systems.

I don't think I was clear. The issue wasn't setting up the computers, or preforming normal administrative corrections. The problems are much more serious, like recovering from major crashes (complain all you want about windows, but after years of instability they at least have learned to crash gracefully - macs have not), data loss, "accidental" loss of major system files (who came up with the idea of deleting file names with just one click anyways?), compatibility issues, users just being dumb, and so forth.

None of these problems happen with the PC's - crashes are rare and usually just the program crashes. Compatibility is not an issue, with the exception of a few mac-specific file formats, system files are protected from "accidental" deletion and modification, more users are familiar with the system, etc.

The few linux systems I manage are a dream come true - as of this morning we've had one system running continually with zero down time for 38,332hrs (thats over 4 years). In the time we've had that system the only "service" its needed is the creation/deletion of user accounts and one upgrade.

As I said previously in the thread, macs are great for individual users, but in a technical computing environment are nearly useless. They simply were not designed for that form of use, and it shows. Blanket recommendations like yours have lead a lot of users to waste a lot of money on systems which do not fit their bill - macs are not a panacea - any more then are PC's, linux or any other system you can name. Each were designed for specific purposes, and choosing one based purely on some form of misguided consumer loyalty is just plain dumb. Choosing one to match your exact requirements is the smart way to go.

Bryan

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

bluesbro1982,
Anyways, if your happy with your windows box, more power to ya!

So you admitting PC's are more powerful than Macs?

Sorry, I guess that generalization is dead due to the intel chips. I am happy with my XP boxes (I have 4 on my desk now, plus 4 more for the wife and kids on the network), plus the 20 or so that preceeded it since the early 80's to some degree.

I do agree the Mac is the right tool for some (including my son who is not going to be an enigneer like dad, but some type of graphic artist). The cost of using non-standard hardware needs to be balanced against that advantages of the OS, to some it is truely worthwhile. For others (including myself) the availability of specialized software, compilers, hardware and drivers for Windows makes using a Mac a non-starter.

 

[bluesbro1982]

None of these problems happen with the PC's - crashes are rare and usually just the program crashes. Compatibility is not an issue, with the exception of a few mac-specific file formats, system files are protected from "accidental" deletion and modification, more users are familiar with the system, etc.

The few linux systems I manage are a dream come true

I'm sorry, but I didn't mean to give a "blanket recommendation." My post simply stated that I haven't really seen the types of problems that you have seen.

As far as protecting system files - you do know that you can treat OS-X just like any BSD unix system for the most part, right?

From terminal:

MyBox:~ user$ sudo passwd root

will enable the root user, and from there sudo chmod/chown work just like any other standard unix command.

 

[zen_man]

So, as far as the scientific thing:
http://daugerresearch.com/pr/DawsonXserveG5Cluster.shtml
http://www.engr.uiuc.edu/news/index.php?xId=065008480714
http://www.apple.com/science/whymac/myths.html
http://www.apple.com/science/solutions/
http://www.apple.com/science/solutions/clustercomputingresources.html
http://hpc.sourceforge.net/
http://software.sci.utah.edu/

There are some pictures I have that I wish I could post here, but I would be breaking NDA.

I keep reading "compatibility", "drivers", "compilers","non-standard hardware". Would you please elaborate on this? I'm not saying that Macs can plug into any network or business solution, Because they can't. But statements like these are just false. I deal with integrating Macs into Active Directory networks all the time. Drivers? Granted, Everybody will make drivers for Windows because of their marketshare. But with perriferals being USB and Firewire for the most part now, Companies are making drivers for both platforms, PCI-Express cards can be an issue, but no less than linux as far as drivers.
That sentence brings me to think of non-standard hardware. The only thing I can say to this is .
Then we come to compilers. For what? Unless you are programming in a Windows specific language, there really isn't an argument here.
Now, I have said this in another thread. There are situations with clients that I would not recommend integrating Macs into the business. In certain situations, it just doesn't make any sense and would be a headache and a waste financially, without any true benefit to the company. But just because it may not fit in your situation, or your company didn't find a solution to a problem, doesn't mean that your entire "field of work" isn't using Macs to perform that job.

Jeez, I hope that all made sense.


B.

 

[The Logic Theorist]

I have an HP/Compaq laptop that's supposedly for work but right now has everything on it. It's got a one pixel wide column failure on the LCD that's red all the time, was supposed to fix that today at work.

I lost a HD on my Dell laptop that's my personal machine um... 8 months ago? Christ, it has been 8 months, and I've replaced the hardware and reloaded windoze, but haven't put any data or software back on it, so it's mostly collecting dust.

I also have a Dell desktop that I "five finger discounted" that needs to be formatted/reinstalled that isn't even plugged in.

I am teh lazy.

My first computer was a C64 btw... Basic 2.0 for the win!

 

[zen_man]

My first computer was a C64 btw... Basic 2.0 for the win!

Yeah baby! Man, those were good times. I remember when I got my C64 and I was the KID on my block.

10 PRINT "BUCK IS GREAT!"
20 GOTO 10

 

[The Logic Theorist]

Yeah baby! Man, those were good times. I remember when I got my C64 and I was the KID on my block.

10 PRINT "BUCK IS GREAT!"
20 GOTO 10

Remember this:

 

[zen_man]

Wow, you're bringing back memories......Zork! :14:

 

[The Logic Theorist]

There are several web versions (using java or flash) of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Infocom game.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/hitchhikers/game_nolan.shtml

I still haven't beaten it though.