Making the move to RB need advice

[sulaco]

I’m currently a OC diver using doubles 95’s and I’m making the move to a rebreather, after looking at different units I narrowed it down to either a KISS or an inspiration, I think I would be happy with either, but I finally decided on the KISS unit, I didn’t rule out the inspiration due to the number of deaths since I believe that most were cause by the user and not the unit, I do have a issue with diving a RB as a newbie and relying on electronics to keep me alive, but that’s a different story.

My question is that the person I normally dive with is planning on using a biopak45 or 60 and refitting it for scuba, should I think about a different dive buddy? I’m worried that he will not get trained and kill himself or the unit will fail and he will kill himself, I guess I'm just worried he will kill himself, and I’ll end up explaining all this to his wife and kids. How do you convince someone that a retro fit on a unit never designed for the water is not a good idea?

Any advice would be much appreciated

 

[MikeR]

For unit choice that really up to you. I dive several units and they all have strong and weak points. My advice would be to get some pool time if I could on all the units I was interested in. You listed the Inspiration and Kiss. I would also look at the Prism and megeladon. I have not dove the prism but the Inspiration, Meg and Kiss are all fine units. It all boils down to your plans and which units suit your needs. I would not discount ECCR's, If your properly trained the electronics fears are not even a factor. Mechanical or electronic, stuff happens better be ready.

As for your buddy...better find a new one. Not only does it sound like he wont be trained but will building his own. Thats like building an airplane then flying it to england with no A&P and no pilots license....not real smart. You can read all you want and think you've got it down but there is no substitute for experience and training. The units mentioned above have been dove thousands and thousands of times before you will put yours on. You can learn from other peoples mistakes....Become a test pilot and your on your own.

 

[caveseeker7]

Mike's right, if you consider eCCRs both the Meg and Prism should be on the list, too. You can see in my avatar where the dice landed for me.

In regards to your buddy, try talk him out of it.

The Biopacks weren't made for diving, and aren't particulary good for it when converted. A friend of mine has done it. The conversion was done by a professional who knows CCRs quite well and has designed, build and sold them. But there is only so much you can do with what you got, and the Biopacks aren't all that much.

More importantly, he really should get CCR training, no matter what he concots and dives. Even more so if he drags other people (buddies, friends) into it and has a family.
If there is one thing you can do for him is get him to learn diving a CCR before he does, for his, his families and your own sake.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Sulaco,

I can only say that you have gotten good advice from two very experienced RB divers. I hope that you will accept that advice.

Picking an RB is a process worthy of a LOT of study. Given the investment, you want to be absolutely certain that you and your chosen unit will be a good fit with your diving needs.

As for your friend, building your own RB, or modifying a unit, especially one that is not primarily built for the job, is a project for those who are VERY experienced at re-breather diving and the construction of such units. It is a job that even they do not take lightly. It is too easy to get that one little thing wrong that will, in the end, be your end.

We are not the type of people who discourage those who are willing to try new things. We simply know a lot of the hidden dangers, and are trying to steer others clear of those shoals!

Good luck! Dive safely!

Rob
IANTD IT
Inspiration Instructor

 

[padiscubapro]

I’m currently a OC diver using doubles 95’s and I’m making the move to a rebreather, after looking at different units I narrowed it down to either a KISS or an inspiration, I think I would be happy with either, but I finally decided on the KISS unit, I didn’t rule out the inspiration due to the number of deaths since I believe that most were cause by the user and not the unit, I do have a issue with diving a RB as a newbie and relying on electronics to keep me alive, but that’s a different story.

My question is that the person I normally dive with is planning on using a biopak45 or 60 and refitting it for scuba, should I think about a different dive buddy? I’m worried that he will not get trained and kill himself or the unit will fail and he will kill himself, I guess I'm just worried he will kill himself, and I’ll end up explaining all this to his wife and kids. How do you convince someone that a retro fit on a unit never designed for the water is not a good idea?

Any advice would be much appreciated

First I played with a BP 60 conversion, Its definately not a good starting point.. A dolphin or one of the russian rbs would be better for a homebuilt conversion.

RB mods should only be done by someone who REALLY knows what is going on and what effect even the slights mod will have.. Talk your buddy out of it...


The sport KISS is definately a nice choice for a recreational RB, the "classic" KISS, is a nice simple design, and in unmodifed form its good for med depth tech dives with reasonable run times.

If you plan on pushing the envelope a few user mods would have to be done, but by that time the diver probably has enough experience and contacts that the mods can be done safely. With my comment about run times, the KISS is capable of long run times, my comment is more directed from the point of available options in the event of several failures, that would force the KISS user onto OC while RBS like the Inspiration,Meg,Prism and others (out of the box) have other options.

I do alot of extreme dives (both depth and required decompression times) so my outlook is a bit different than many people on this board, My primary goal of a RB is to give me a way to do my dives with as many ways as possible to get home.. The last thing I want to do when I have 3,4,5 or more hours of deco is go onto OC..

 

[Curt McNamee]

I know you will be happy with your KISS CCR. It is a great unit. I am taking my training now and like it alot. It has been simple to get use to and is going to change my diving forever. The door has opened and I am now passing thru it. What an incredible trip. Everyone on this board has been giving great advice for all to take under their wing. Good Job.

 

[sulaco]

Thanks for all the responses

MikeR:

I will look into the meg and prism, Are there any problems with the electronics on the current inspirations? Plus what are the dangers with the battery being in the loop? I only ask because I see those listed a lot, I agree with training on units that have electronics, but considering the simple features of the kiss, would it not be a better unit for a newbie? Also I looked at the new Evo unit, but its priced very high, I’m not sure I justify that.

As for the comments about the dive buddy, I agree about the test pilot, I would also agree that given his comments to me over the phone, he feels that there is very little to the units, I can’t believe anyone would really think this, but a new buddy is not a problem, I hope to meet new people when I go to training later this year.

Caverseeker7:

Training is so important, I truly believe this, but given my buddy attitude I doubt he will even consider it necessary, I feel that he will consider a few hours of pool training enough, which is nuts!!

BigJetDiver69:

Not sure what you mean about accepting advice, I’m looking at a device I feel comfortable with and I’m getting trained before I even accept the unit, I’m also reading as much data as I can, as for my dive buddy…Its up to him what he wants to do, I’ve tried to convince him that doing a retro on a biopak is only for the select few people with a) the skills to do the retro and b) the rebreather experience to handle problems should they arise, both he doesn’t have.

PadiscubaPro:

You make a good point about pushing the envelope, right now I don’t plan to do so, I want to get lots of hours under my belt before I look at even going down that path, then with additional training I expect to progress to more advance stuff, I’m still young so there is not need to rush this process.

Curt McNamee:

Congrats on the KISS unit, where are you based? I’m in Maryland, just wondering if you were diving local.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Thanks for all the responses

As for the comments about the dive buddy, I agree about the test pilot, I would also agree that given his comments to me over the phone, he feels that there is very little to the units, I can’t believe anyone would really think this, but a new buddy is not a problem, I hope to meet new people when I go to training later this year.

Not sure what you mean about accepting advice, I’m looking at a device I feel comfortable with and I’m getting trained before I even accept the unit, I’m also reading as much data as I can, as for my dive buddy…Its up to him what he wants to do, I’ve tried to convince him that doing a retro on a biopak is only for the select few people with a) the skills to do the retro and b) the rebreather experience to handle problems should they arise, both he doesn’t have.

My comments were primarily aimed at your buddy. It sounds as if you are proceeding in the right way. You should be very happy with your new unit, whatever it turns out to be.

Enjoy your training, and Happy No-bubble Diving!!

Rob

 

[MikeR]

I have literally about 1200 hours on my inspiration. The electronics are fine, no issues. Generally speaking most electronic related incedents I've read about are user error(ignoring warnings, diving the unit with a low battery warn, or cell warn ect.) I've spoken with several close friends at NEDU and the batt in the loop in their opinion is a non-issue...bear in mind that this is still not scientific. If the electronics or the battery in the loop concerned you you could buy a used inspiration and get a hammerehead electronics set (great setup). There are so many things to consider in purchasing a breather and most of them are so close in design that it will take a great deal of research. My main gripe with the inspiration is the harness and wing. If I went the inspiration route I would probably try to buy an older unit without the backlit handsets(cheaper) put on a hammerhead, custom divers wing and BP and you are set.

I've been diving a Meg alot lately and really think its a great unit. Very modular. The ability to cary more gas on my back is a big plus on the deeper dives. Electronics work well, I have had no complaints with the unit at all.

I dive the kiss abit as well. I do like the unit, but I do alot of photography. The task loading on the kiss seems a little greater to me. The meg and inspiration with ADV's, very light task loading. Monitor your po2 and dive your plan..pretty much it.

If you know anyone with the units your considering, try to get a fam course in the pool. They all breathe a little differently. The trim of each is a little different (the inspiration with the custom diver wing and BP has unbelievable trim. Horizontal throughout the plane with no effort). Its a big decision that only you can make, we all have our own prefferences. Seeing the differences in our choices should tell you that not everyunit is the best match for everyperson. I would try as many units as possible, sit down and make pro con lists and go from there. Its an expensive decision, it would be best to get it right the first time. I have at the moment 4 rebreathers and am on the list for an Ouroboros Rebreather. If you told me I could keep only one I'm not sure I could make a decision, I really like them all...hope that confused you Good luck!

 

[caveseeker7]

I have at the moment 4 rebreathers and am on the list for an Ouroboros Rebreather.

Mike, do you have a delivery date/estimate?
We better get some feedback here when you dive/get that rig.
What I've seen really impressed me, I'm very much looking forward to some feedback.

By the way, KISS, Meg, what are the other two?
Stefan