Just bought a mares icon at my LDH using one of thier tanks to check valve position between shoulder blades. seemed like it would work so I bought it without having my aquamaster DH with me. When I put my rig together it seemes like I can comfortably keep reg low enough, but it seems like it sits too far behind me. (distance between my back and reg). Any ideas??
Mares Icon BCD with double hose
- Thread starter EHowe
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simonbeans
Contributor
Forget the BC and dive the double hose as it was used during the time period it was made. A harness or very early backpack (prior to 1970) is the way they were intended to be dived. Bouyancy control IS possible without a BC (let your PADI instructor know that!!).
Paladin
Contributor
Or you could go with a horse collar BC. I have one that I use when diving my PRAM.
Mr. Howe,
You have made a substantial investment in the Mares Icon BCD, and I'm not going to tell you not to use it. I think it can be easily used with your Aquamaster. What you have is a BC with a lift capability of 45 pounds; which is way more than you'll ever need. You are in Chicago, and so are either doing a lot of fresh water diving, or travel a lot. Either way, weight yourself to the minimum weight you need to be neutral at the surface with a full tank (about eye level in the water). Put about eight pounds of weight into the non-releasable weight pouches for your tank; this will weight your tank a bit against your back, and push that air into other areas of the BC when you get to depth and need a little buoyancy. Only add enough weight to be neutral when you descend to depth. I was able to look at the BC in this promotional You Tube video on-line:
Mares Icon BC with Mrs Plus Weight System Video Review - YouTube
If the regulator still pushes away from your back a bit, go somewhat head-down to both move the air toward the bottom of the BC, and also place the regulator in the plane of the center of your lungs. Above all, get out and enjoy both your new BC and the Aquamaster. If you haven't already, you may wish to consider upgrading the Aquamaster to the Phoenix design, so you can have LP and HP ports on it, along with a balanced first stage.
SeaRat
You have made a substantial investment in the Mares Icon BCD, and I'm not going to tell you not to use it. I think it can be easily used with your Aquamaster. What you have is a BC with a lift capability of 45 pounds; which is way more than you'll ever need. You are in Chicago, and so are either doing a lot of fresh water diving, or travel a lot. Either way, weight yourself to the minimum weight you need to be neutral at the surface with a full tank (about eye level in the water). Put about eight pounds of weight into the non-releasable weight pouches for your tank; this will weight your tank a bit against your back, and push that air into other areas of the BC when you get to depth and need a little buoyancy. Only add enough weight to be neutral when you descend to depth. I was able to look at the BC in this promotional You Tube video on-line:
Mares Icon BC with Mrs Plus Weight System Video Review - YouTube
If the regulator still pushes away from your back a bit, go somewhat head-down to both move the air toward the bottom of the BC, and also place the regulator in the plane of the center of your lungs. Above all, get out and enjoy both your new BC and the Aquamaster. If you haven't already, you may wish to consider upgrading the Aquamaster to the Phoenix design, so you can have LP and HP ports on it, along with a balanced first stage.
SeaRat
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Well, the tank needs to sit as close to your back as possible in addition to being low enough. Any padding or tank supports that lift the tank off your back is detrimental to a DH reg operation. Another issue you have to deal with is the BC actually lifting off your back as you dive. Unless the harness is snugg, any looseness in the harness coupled with the lift of the bladder will lift the BC off your back, one of the big reasons jacket type BCs do not work with DH regs.
You can certainly try it but you really need to dive the DH with the proper BP to understand how the DH should feel and then you can evaluate how well the Mares works. Finding a local experienced DH diver to show you the ropes is always the best option.
You can certainly try it but you really need to dive the DH with the proper BP to understand how the DH should feel and then you can evaluate how well the Mares works. Finding a local experienced DH diver to show you the ropes is always the best option.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
I would just get one of Simonbeans' tank harnesses (basket harness) available at
Vintage Scuba - Vintage Scuba Gear at Vintage Double Hose
and learn to dive the DA Aquamaster with no BC. It's more fun anyway.
If I can do it in a thick 7mm two piece wetsuit in 48 degree water I'm sure you can figure it out too.
Save the BC for modern regs and I guess what they'd call "regular diving" these days.
Vintage Scuba - Vintage Scuba Gear at Vintage Double Hose
and learn to dive the DA Aquamaster with no BC. It's more fun anyway.
If I can do it in a thick 7mm two piece wetsuit in 48 degree water I'm sure you can figure it out too.
Save the BC for modern regs and I guess what they'd call "regular diving" these days.
simonbeans
Contributor
It is very possible to dive a double hose without a BC. Here is a very experienced diver who had never used a double hose before. We discussed the basic physics of double hose diving, combined with a borrowed smoothskin wet suit, 71.2 steel tank, Voit 50 Fathom regulator and 8# of weights. She dove to the depth of Silver Spring in FL and as can be seen in this photo, was exhibiting perfect bouyancy control. Upon surfacing, she said it was much easier to control her bouyancy with the use of her lungs. Reg position is very easy when diving in the manner of the double hose time period. Trying to combine modern gear with vintage regulators is problematic at best.
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After WW11 surplus stores were on every street corner. Some sold WW11 surplus corregated hoses that had been intended for gas masks, or so I was told. They were light grey in color and were several inches longer than the official regulator hoses.
True to my nic name of "Surplus Sam" (I made much of my equipment) in those halcyon years I began using them and discovered they were very comfortable and at 50 cents each a heck of a lot less expensive than the official hoses at $8.95 a pair. The only draw back I recall that in the swimming position they were very buoyant and appeared as as two giant arches-Like a early underwater swimming Mc Donald
Some years ago may 20 or even more,there was a company who regularly appeared at DEMA who marketed corregated neoprene hoses. They may or may not still be in business, I recall they were located in the mid west possibly Ohio.
You may want to investigate longer hoses..They will work
You would be unique among the vintage tribe since your hoses will hang down to your waist..but it works..
Let us hear from you if you locate the source...
SDM
True to my nic name of "Surplus Sam" (I made much of my equipment) in those halcyon years I began using them and discovered they were very comfortable and at 50 cents each a heck of a lot less expensive than the official hoses at $8.95 a pair. The only draw back I recall that in the swimming position they were very buoyant and appeared as as two giant arches-Like a early underwater swimming Mc Donald
Some years ago may 20 or even more,there was a company who regularly appeared at DEMA who marketed corregated neoprene hoses. They may or may not still be in business, I recall they were located in the mid west possibly Ohio.
You may want to investigate longer hoses..They will work
You would be unique among the vintage tribe since your hoses will hang down to your waist..but it works..
Let us hear from you if you locate the source...
SDM
Dr. Miller brings up a great point about longer hoses. Unfortunately, those surplus hoses are probably not available now. I did a similar thing with my DX Overpressure Breathing regulator. It had very short, stiff hoses which constrained the position that they could be in on my back (right behind my neck). So I bought two SCBA hoses at a safety supply house (these are the units fire departments use). Some then used a longer hose; these are now used for Powered Air Purifying Respirators. Scott (who used to make the Scott Air Pak, but now are only in the industrial safety business) and 3M both have these hoses. Here's what they look like on my DX Overpessure Breathing regulator, along with a very bad self-portrait underwater at High Rocks on the Clackamas River:
SeaRat
SeaRat
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