By the way Poseidon8118..........Happy Birthday!:dazzler1:
Mares new limited edition
- Thread starter Captain Hardhead
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Regulators pose an interesting problem for an equipment manufacturer. They are the most important piece of a diver's life support equipment and building one cheap, building one that will wear out in 5-7 years (like many cars), or building one with substandard performance is not an option. So in essence a regulator becomes the ultimate in durable goods and if a diver owns one that does the job well, there will be no need for that diver to ever replace it unless something major changes.steve2281:
For example single hose regs used to have only 1 LP port, then BC's became common and another LP port was required, then octos became common and a third LP port was required, then dry suits became common and a 4th port was, if not required, at least desireable. Each of these changes in the industry standard required a new regulator or at least a clunky looking add on adapter.
But since the early to mid 80's at least a couple manufacturers have been making high quality regs that were and are fully able to meet any performance requirement a diver may encounter which presents a difficult problem for those companies if they want to sell new regulators to old divers. It's even worse if the company has made their regs upgradeable and where posisble allows improvement to be retrofitted into older regulators.
The manufacturers options in are limited. One approach is to make and market styling changes in such a way that divers think they have to have them to fit in. How many divers do you see on dive boats with chrome plated metal cased second stages anymore? Not many because the Madison Avenue types convinced them those regs look old and they need a new and improved graphite/plastic/epoxy resin cased second stage. And then they usually also attribute several engineering benefits to the cheaper and less durable material (and in turn a cracked plastic second stage case will eventually becomes the impetus for buying a new reg - one area where "cheap" has become an industry standard).
Another approach is to convince customers a reg is somehow new, revolutionary, or offers another level of performance whether the customer needs it or not. A variation on this approach is to market less exepensive entry level regs, more expensive intermediate level regs and even more expensive advanced level regs and hopefully sell a single diver three regs in his/her career as their skills improve or their diving becomes more advanced.
The last option, and one that should be the option of last resort, is to discontinue parts supports to force the retirement of older regs. This has the obvious drawback of hurting the company's credibility especially if the reg is sold with a "lifetime" warranty and in any case, as Steve points out, makes prospective customers very leery about spending big bucks on a regulator with a time limited life span.
We carry Scubapro, Aqualung and Dacor/Mares regs in the store where I do reg repair. Sales reps from both Aqualung and Scubapro notice the parts sales for older regs and both would prefer we sell new regs to customers with older Conshelf, Mk 5 Mk 10, etc regulators rather than continue to service older regs. But we don't push it too hard if the regs are safe and doing the job required.
Where we have sold a lot of regs lately however is to owners of comparatively new Dacor regs whose annual service parts have been discontinued. The thing to note here is that those customers are FAR more interested in buying a Scubapro or Aqualung reg than they are a Mares or Dacor reg because SP and Aqualung are still supporting virtually every reg they have made in the last 30 years while Dacor/Mares is not.
So again I commend Mares on developing a high quality metal second staged regulator as it is definitely a step in the right direction. I am also ok with the "revolutionary" advertising even if perhaps "evolutionary" would be a more accurate term because, as indicated above, that approach is prefereable to some of the other options. I am also ok with them marketing the reg to an elite upper crust market to sell the reg to existing Mares customers wanting upgrade.
But what I would need to sell a $700 reg to a customer, particularly one who has suddenly found themselves owing a 5 year old Dacor paperweight, would be an iron clad written guarentee that Mares will provide parts and service support for at least 20 years because at this point Mares lacks the credibility needed to convince customers that parts support won't be dropped 5 years down the line. Mares needs to commit to the long term future of this reg and show confidence that it will go the distance and be as useful 10-20 years from now as it is today before customers are going to feel that way.
scubatoys:
Very interesting that the new LE line is using the same internal parts as the v-32 (assuming Larry's info is correct).
Also interesting is this quote directly from the Mares offical press release on page 16 of this thread: "The Metal Tech LE is a completely new regulator in the Mares line"
Seems the company is claiming a COMPLETELY new regulator, but it is actually the same "guts" stuffed inside a different first stage housing/case/body.
Revolutionary???
steve2281:
Well, I'm a bit confused... If they would have used a different seat - everyone would be up in arms that you would never find replacement parts. They use the same seat and people complain... huh....
If Chevy comes out with a "completely new" car... but use the same tires as other models, are you saying it's not a new car?? Doesn't the fact that the porting of the reg allows for 4 dfc ports - has improved flow rates, and the size is half of other regs make it new... even if it has the same seat??
Boogie711
Guest
Larry, you're missing the point.
This isn't a Chevy with the same four tires - it's a Chevy with the same engine, transmission and frame, but with different body panels to make it smaller on the inside.
Furthermore, it's the same Chevy delivered with great hype after the Chevy dealers all promised us that we were going to see a "revolutionary" new product that only a select few people would be lucky enough to buy.
This isn't a Chevy with the same four tires - it's a Chevy with the same engine, transmission and frame, but with different body panels to make it smaller on the inside.
Furthermore, it's the same Chevy delivered with great hype after the Chevy dealers all promised us that we were going to see a "revolutionary" new product that only a select few people would be lucky enough to buy.
scubatoys:
Me too! Whole thread is fascinating.
For instance, during all these years of diving, with all the equipment problems I've been through, I never even once thought or hinted to myself, "Gee, I wish my first stage was smaller."
Where in God's name is all this passion coming from, and what is it really about?
ChrisA
Contributor
Tech Admin:As a reminder, although you may disagree with Stefano, this is an opportunity for you to give the president of a major manufacturer your feedback which they may actually by incorporated into their own future designs or even used for internal feedback by Mares. By responding with the same respectful manner we see throughout these forums you are helping to insure this unique opportunity does not end up wasted. No matter what your stance everyone can take advantage of this opportunity and I encourage you all to do so. I've already seen a ton of good come out of this thread just by reading the different opinions of the line since it launched and I'd like to see that continue, if only for my own educationThanks everyone.
I'll come out and say that Mares did the right thing. They only made 2000 of these. THat's about the right number. here are quite a few people who really don't care if something cots an extra 500 bucks or not. There are people around here who can afford to buy thier high school
kid a $30,000 car. Nothing wrong with having money to spend. the LE is NOT mass market equipment. I'm sure there are at least 2000 peole in the world who would want this.
On the other hand if Mares had made tens of tousands of these I'd say thier managment was nuts. They didn't and they arn't. This is a "marketing thing" designed to extract a preimum price from those who can afford to pay. I think it will work.
You have to look at the purpose of something and evaluate it relative to it's purpose. If you think the purpose of the Mares Limited Edition is to supply Joe Diver with economical durable equipment then LE is a faiure but that's not the purpose. It is designed to sell to a very linited market segment who is willing to pay a premium just to be different.
I buy gear bye looksing at performance and duribility relative to price and I'll wait for sales. I'm not the person LE was designed for,
Poseidon8118
Contributor
Kim:
Thanks so Much!!!!!
That's fine with us. The problem is not that Mares introduced Limited Edition Metal gear. Good for them, let them make it, let people buy it.ChrisA:
The PROBLEM is that the CEO of the company came to ScubaBoard and touted his company's new, cosmetically altered, super expensive gear as gear that will REVOLUTIONIZE the SCUBA industry.
It was the WRONG thing to do.
Poseidon8118
Contributor
stefano di martino:
Dear Mr. Martino,
The regulator was purchased at the following dive shop:
Goose's Scuba
1490 Joliet St. (RT. 30)
Dyer, IN 46311
219-322-7222
I do not know the cause of the failure Doug or Blake Gossage would have to let you know. I will inform them of your posting and contact information.
Sincerely,
Paul (poseidon8118)
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