Mares or Apeks?

[karlos]

Hi all,

OK, I have so far read so many statements about Apeks and Mares regs, but I can't find the info I'm looking for. I would like to buy either the Mares Proton Ice or the Apex ATX 100/200. I am aware that most would say go for the Apeks, but I want to go for the Proton Ice. I live in Scotland, so most of my diving is done in cold water. I have been told that the Proton Ice would be OK to use if I added a cold water kit. Lets be realistic. I am geared towards the Proton Ice because it looks great. Not only that, it's tiny which I prefer in a reg. I have no doubt that the Apeks would do everything but make my breakfast in the mornings, but I would like to hear some positive advice about the Proton Ice.

I'm sure it sounds like I've already made my mind up, but I can asure you, any constructive comments would be grately appreciated.

If Greg Barlow is on line, I'd love to hear your comments, as I have been imressed by your knowledge of regs and diving as a whole.

Thanks

Karl

 

[jonnythan]

Sounds to me like you've made your decision.

Go buy the reg already and don't waste our time.

 

[karlos]

Need advice, not abuse. What do you these forums are for?

 

[jonnythan]

My advice is just to get the Apeks. You don't need a cold water kit for it.

But you very clearly said you don't want that kind of advice. All you say you want to hear is "buy the Mares!"

So buy the Mares.

 

[PurduEE]

Whatever you go with, make sure it's an environmentally sealed first stage (Mares calls this the CWD kit, most/all(?) Apeks are sealed first stages). I have to admit that I like the Mares V32 first stage on the Proton Ice with the CWD as well as (better than) anything else out there, but I'm not so sure about the second stage. I've heard good and bad. My wife has the Proton Ice, and I've never dove it, but she seems to like it. She is, however, all about diving in clear, blue, warm water, so she's not really tough on a reg. I dive a sealed Oceanic Zeta DX4 and I like the small second stage size better than my older Mares Abyss.

The other thing to consider is maintenance costs. In the states, the Mares annual parts are on the high side.

In the end, it really depends on the kind of diving you do, and plan to do, that will determine if you'll see much performance difference at all from two different regs. Everybody has their favorite regs and right now Apeks seems like the favorite of a very vocal crowd. I don't have any experience good or bad with Apeks, but there are certainly other options that divers should consider. You can collect opinions all day on this board, but it really needs to be your choice based on what you know you need and desire in a reg. I hate to think that anyone would buy a reg based significantly on opinions from scubaboard.

 

[Greg Barlow]

Karlos,

The Apeks has an outstanding system of isolating the first stage from the ambient water. I personally believe that it is the best system on the market. I have never been a big fan of using silicone grease/oil as a means of isolating the IP spring area due to the potential for leaks and general all-round mess.

That being said, I have never used the "anti-freeze" kits on my Mares, ScubaPro, Aqua Lung, or old Voit regs. I follow strict cold water diving protocols while making such dives and have never had a regulator free flow problem in more than 28 years. While I don't regularly ice dive, I do make many dives in deep quarries where the bottom temps never rise above the low 40's. From reports of other divers, I can safely say that no reg is totally immune from ice formation.

I do believe that the majority of free flowing second stages are actually the result of a first stage problem. Whenever the first stage goes into a "locked open" status, the downstream design second stage must relieve the excessive pressure. The potential for a second stage to ice over is certainly not remote, but is not typically the cuplprit. If the second stage is the problem, then a metal case or highly efficient heat sink near the second stage valve is some of the best protection.

The Mares Proton Ice is very small and offers the thermal conduction value of the brass case design. The first stage can be sealed with the silicone oil, but as I mentioned this is not without its problems.

The Apeks has the advantage of being able to be user tuned to have a lower work of breathing in relation to the inhalation resistance. The exhalation effort for both models will be relatively the same. This benefit also comes at the price of being a more complex mechanical system than that of the very simple Proton design. The Proton has very few parts, and an amazing small number of O-rings. They are very easy to tune, and have a robust design. The Apeks also has an excellent record for durability. I am also impressed with the fact that they don't need to make one modification after another to solve problems that have reared their ugly heads. The Brits certainly go this one right...

One of the drawbacks to the Proton is that tiny exhaust tee! If you are not moving forward then you can expect to see some exhaust bubbles. This is getting to be a far too common problem with today's regs. The Apeks is better in this regard, but is still not where it should be. I believe that ALL companies should look closely at the Atomic M1 tee and take heed. By the way, with my older regs (60's-80's) this really wasn't much of an issue. The purge button is also weak and stiff to push. This isn't a concern to me, as I don't ever recall using a purge button other than when teaching OW students in the technique. The Proton's internal volume is so low that not much gas is needed to blow it clear.

If you are making serious, expedition grade technical dives then go with the Apeks. While the Proton can be used at depths that most of us will never see, the adjustability of the Apeks is a winner in this regard. If like 90%+ of us rec/tech divers, then use your own judgement. Both are built to very high quality control standards from excellent materials.

I've no complaints from my Mares regs. I've made every attempt to overbreathe them at 140' on air and they never faltered one bit. In fact, a dive buddy and I purposely attempted to overbreathe one of my older MR12 Akros (2 second stages on the same first stage) regs at 125' in 39 degree water and still couldn't do so. I even once free flowed my AAS while breathing hard on the primary to see it it had a dramatic impact (done in warmer water, as it wouldn't advised to do so in 39 degree water). It still didn't have a readily apparent impact. My HP seats generally last for 150-200 dives and not once has a reg malfunctioned during a dive. So....Those are some of my reasons for continuing to use the Mares regs.

In closing, I have said this before, but...if I needed more performance for dives that exceed the parameters of my Mares models I would most likely purchase the Apeks models.

For what it's worth....

Greg

 

[Greg Barlow]

PurduEE,

I really liked your response to this thread. I was busy typing my reply and didn't have the opportunity to read yours until I had submitted mine.

Well...Unfortunately, there are many divers who would make a decision based only on what they read on various forums. I certainly hope that no one makes such an important choice based solely on my ramblings.

I have always advocated that a diver should buy a name brand reg from a local dealer that has an excellent repuatation for customer service of gear. The brand is a secondary point, as the service is what counts.

I began servicing gear long ago, but began using Mares regs specifically because of the dive center that I was instructing through. I have always been somewhat anal retentive on reg maintainance and servicing. Many of my dive buddies kid me about taking such great pains to maintain my gear. It's kinda funny, though....as they want me to rebuild their regs. I am not a typical "parts changer" when it comes to such matters as I carefully check every single part and ensure that the job is done correctly. Better safe than sorry when it comes to life support equipment.

Greg

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Ok, Greg hit all the high points, but I do want to add a couple things. First of all, like has already been said, the Apeks has a very nice environmental seal, which also is part of the mechanism to make the first stage overbalanced. Secondly, the warranty on service parts is only a two year warranty with the Mares, however, its a lifetime warranty on the Apeks. After the warranty is over for the Mares, be prepared to pay a substantial amount for the service kits (last time I checked, they were more expensive than Poseidon service kits). With the heat exchanger on the Apeks second stage, and a full metal barrel going thru the second stage, freeflows are reduced. In fact, I have never had a freeflow on my Apeks due to freezing. So, if you really want my opinion, and you arent dead set on the Proton yet, I would say go with the Apeks. BTW, I think the Apeks look great.

 

[karlos]

thanks for all your input. I think that the Apeks is probably the better reg for me, I just wondered if the Proton Ice could match it. I'm sure I'd be happy with either, but from the response of most, and being that I am diving in cold waters, plus the fact it's cheaper for service packs, the Apeks is now more appealing. I do believe the 'ICE' in the title is a bit missleading on the Proton. It looks great (not to say the Apeks doesn't), but I've never used either so all your advise has been very useful. Thanks.

Karlos

 

[PurduEE]

I do believe the 'ICE' in the title is a bit missleading on the Proton.

I was sort of disappointed in that too. The rationale from Mares was that the color scheme is 'ICE', which is not to be confused with a reg suitable for ICE diving... Seems needlessly confusing for me as well.