Minimalist Configuration, where to start

[Jerrod]

Hello,

I just learned to dive last month and now have about 25 dives under my belt. I have rented all sorts of equipment, and my wife told me I have to buy equipment because I am wasting money (who can argue with that!).

I live in KY and will probably be only diving moderate fresh water temperatures, but I do want the ability to be able to go deep here, and that means 46 F with a lot of neoprene and weights. I assume saltwater diving will be once every couple of years and I can always rent if my configuration won't be best (I have never been in the ocean diving, so I must admit a jacket BC doesn't sound all that bad here).

Here in KY we only use alum 80s and I plan to just keep renting them and not buy, so I need everything to work with these tanks.

Here is what I am looking for and my questions

BCD:
I want a back plate and wing. From my calculations, the wing should be about 40lbs lift. I like the Zeagle Express Tech.
I am 6' and 295 lbs, so I need a big BCD as well.
I want the bp/w to allow for tanks to be side mounted or to expand to doubles on the back. This should be a relatively cheap upgrade (< 100.00).
I want the harness to adjust from small person to my size in minutes.
Weight of the configuration is not a big deal, so I assume aluminum or steel backplates are fine? I won't make any flying trips for years, as my kids are young.
Would like integrated weight pouches and the ability to upgrade to all the extras (i.e. manufacturer has all these bells and whistles just in case).

Regs:
This might upset some people, it sure did at the dive shop, but I don't like air1/air2 where my backup air is also my power inflator.
I want a 7 foot hose 1st stage. Is it east to add the hose to a regulator? So i could find a cheap deal and then upgrade the hose later?
I want a reg to handle the temps of 40-100 F.
I want an octopus. I am not sure what it is called, but the second stage is held around a divers neck by some type of necklace. Will any octopus suffice, assuming I assume I can change the hoses as well?
I want a console that can be upgraded/expanded as I get money. So my SPG, depth, compass and computer are all on one console that hooks to a D ring.

I want to spend around $800.00 and have found many pieces of equipment out there, but I am not sure of quality, will it all work together, etc..

Can anyone make recommendations that meet my wants? I can budge on all most anything except I want a bp/w.

Thanks for your time,

Jerrod

 

[jonnythan]

What you're asking for is impossible. Singles, doubles, and sidemount all require separate wings, which are generally about $300 each. Much more than <$100. As for the rest, you'll have a hard time putting all that together on that budget. You're probably looking used. A bpw plus regulator setup from DRIS is $799 but that doesn't include an SPG or depth gauge. Or weight pouches, or the quick-adjust harness.

You want to rethink the console thing. It's really a pain in the butt to keep track of your depth using a console. With that thing on your hip or trailing behind you, you tend not to look at it. I strongly recommend a wrist-mounted computer. Get a decent brass SPG and clip that off. No need to have a big rubber console.

I guess you're looking at a lot of used gear, which is OK, but you have to include the cost of service on used gear before you use it.

 

[Them]

Start minimalist.


A few points that may or may not be worth much:

1) Don't worry about future configurations. Yes, maybe you can sell one wing, buy another and all the gear for a new configuration, and make a switch for a net cost of $100, but unless you are solving a problem with the new configuration that's just a $100 loss and a need to learn new skills. Build up something you want to dive.

2) Think buoyancy, not weight. Buoyancy as in an aluminum 80 will range from -4 to +2 or so. An aluminum backplate will be -2. Regulator and the like is maybe -4. That means with an empty tank your BP/W+tank+regs will have a buoyancy of -4lbs or so. If you personally are +15lbs buoyant, that means you will need 11lbs of lead before you even mention wetsuits. Replace the aluminum backplate with steel (-6lb buoyancy) and that's 4lbs less lead you need. Displacement counts with some of this (a pound of aluminum displaces more water than a pound of steel) to make the dry weights and buoyancy different to some extent.

3) Hoses can be changed but I don't know any details there. I will say that if you want minimalist, a console is probably not what you are looking for. The current minimalist fashion is a simple SPG in place of the console and everything else on your wrist.

At your stated budget, don't worry about brands either. Look at and research specific products.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

You might be confusing the term "minimalist" with something else.
True minimalism is extreme bare bones diving and is basically a modernized version (only in year of manufacture of equipment) of old school diving back when there were no BC's, octos, long hoses, or consoles.
What you are describing is a cross between a DIR configuration and an assembly of regular recreational gear.

For a BP/W, from what I've seen lately Dris looks like your best bet. They also have a great 1000 lumen hand held back up light.
For the reg I would get a Hog which you can order with whatever hoses you want, including the octo.
I would get a wrist bottom timer and use tables. You can get a computer later when you get more dives in, save the money for now.
I would also get a wrist compass that will go on the opposite wrist (left)
Use a plain SPG, you only need it to see when you are getting low on air, you should be looking at your time and depth, you should learn to know when you're getting low by just looking at your time and depth. Let me put it another way. Get out of the habit of looking at your air supply every 3 minutes. It can be very distracting and it teaches you a paranoid habit. It's too easy to lose track of the big picture that way. It actually makes you think more and be more aware of your supply if you look at your actual dive time and think about how deep you were. Back in the old days before spg's it seemed people never ran out of air unexpectedly because they were forced to pay attention. Now people have all the bells and whistles and run out of air more than then, go figure?
Also, get a regular weightbelt.
Use regular paddle fins like jets or something similar, no gimmicks, nothing to go wrong, just good workhorse fins.
Don't forget the knife. Please don't get one of those stupid sawed off steak knives either, get a real knife.

Great luck!

 

[doctormike]

When you say that you can't budge on the bp/w, does that mean that you have to get the Zeagle? Not sure why you need to get that one - from what I understand the advantage of that is that it is compact and light for traveling. If you are staying put, and diving in cold water with a lot of neoprene, why not a regular steel backplate? Lasts forever, infinitely customizable and adds 6 lbs of negative buoyancy. For that matter, you might want to buy a steel tank or two... those rentals add up as well, and it won't take long to make up the cost of the tank. Also, and by having your own tanks you can (a) opt for steel and get even more negative buoyancy (so less need for weight on your weight belt), and (b) be ready to go diving at a moment's notice and not worry about hurrying back to the dive shop to return their tanks at the end of the trip.

I also agree with the brass and glass SPG and a wrist mounted computer.

If the harness adjustment is a big issue (are you sharing this gear?), then you could look at something like the Halcyon cinch system. You can put weight pouches on your BP harness, or trim weights on your cam bands. With a steel backplate and a steel tank, you might not need much weight carrying capacity at all, depending on your exposure suit (especially in fresh water).

Definitely agree with you about avoiding the Air2... another thread, but a regular backup second stage on a necklace is great.

 

[antattack]

Good news, a back plate and the harness that goes with it can be used with a single or double tank config. The wing, however, is usually dedicated to single tank use or double tank use. You are likely to accumulate more than one wing if you go with a back plate.

Hogarthian rigs avoid consoles, but you've already heard that.

I have an air 2, and I have a long hose rig. Dive whatever makes you smile, but I can confirm that an air 2 will work well for recreational diving. The long hose rig might be your preference now, but it probably is not absolutely required until you start diving in overhead environments.

If you are attracted to a minimal rig I suggest you google "hogarthian" and "dir scuba configuration". The "DIR" config is very practical, prescriptive and works for most types of diving from beginner to technical. When adhered to, it is quite affordable because that style of diving demands that a diver brings only what is needed for each dive. This creates a simple, clean config, but it also means "no toys." ( if the toy isn't required for the goal of the dive.)

I'm not a DIR diver, so I may have some of the ideas wrong. After years of diving, I am headed DIR. I like the philosophy.

Remember to have fun! ( come dive with me if you make it out to the left coast)

 

[gcarter]

PM Jim Lapenta...

 

[lowviz]

...//...I want a back plate and wing. ...//...I am 6' and 295 lbs, ...//... I can budge on all most anything except I want a bp/w....//...

Try a loaner BP/W rig before you commit to anything. You may find that you are unable to reach the valves. Inability to reach the valves may not stop you from still wanting a BP/W, but something to know up front.

 

[tracydr]

You have some wants/needs combined that aren't really compatible with a BP/w. have you actually seen one? They don't have air 2, integrated weight pouches ( although you can buy trim weights, have the BP weighted and pouches for the cam straps, etc. I've never seen a standard BP used in a sidemount system. A doubles system will need its own wing.
the harness is one size fits all, the plat is one size fits most.
Hoses are easy to change.
You might try buying a GUE book like Dress for Success to see why DIR divers use the gear they use and what it looks like.

 

[Pao]

A few points...

1. Generic SS BP and harness which are usually Diverite or Halcyon clones will save you a ton. Just look for stiff webbing for the harness and a softer one for the crotch strap. I do not know how much it will cost in the US but here in the Philippines generic ones will cost you around 100 to 120 USD.
2. Go for branded/reputable wing manufacturers (usually in the 300 USD range).
3. I second the HOG D1 regs. The swivel turret and 5th port will make these useable for both sidemount and back mounted doubles.
You can get the entire set with SPG for 540 USD at Divegear Express. They are good performers and easy to service.