Missouri Fatality

[ianr33]

Hmmmm...................

I've been called farm Animal Stupid on here before for diving Air to 150 . I've been to 200 on air (after being trimix certified) Only do that in perfect conditions

No way would I choose to do 179 on air in a cold and dark lake.

Why? And on a Course??

 

[PfcAJ]

I cannot believe how people are. It used to be that nitrox and trimix were "Voodoo gases". Now pendulem has swung the other way. Suddenly air below 60 feet (OK, maybe I exagerate, but not by much) is the EVIL BLEND of breathing gases.

The truth? We do not know as much as we need to in order to say what is safest on any dive. People continue to take "undeserved hits" on recreational dives. If we do not have keeping that from happening figured out, how can anyone get on a soapbox about "Deep Air"?

I am a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist. I do gas exchange for a living. I am a Divemaster. I am in the middle if my Tec Deep class. I cannot tell you Trimix is "safer" than air. Each has it's own risks. Diving, especially at the Tec level, is about understanding and accepting risk.

As Plot said, we do not know the intended dive plan. Diving deeper than 165' is outside of standards for the course. 120' is the deepest minimum dive for Tec Deep. Something went wrong. We don't know what yet. Saying "Deep Air" oversimplifies the question that we lack data to answer.

Ya, something went wrong. Deep. On air.

I can tell you that trimix is safer than air. Obviously. You aren't intoxicated at depth (provided you use appropriate levels of He) so any issue is more easily managed.

I wonder if this poor guy "understood and accepted the risk" since how he's dead. I wonder who told him that deep air is ok. Probably some "agency" with "standards" that don't reflect reality.

There is a trend with nearly all deep diving deaths. High ENDs. I see it over and over again.

 

[plot]

Again... we don't know the planned dive. Maybe they were only supposed to go to 130' and something happened. What do you consider a safe depth for diving on air?

The shop at the lake provides trimix, however before you can get trimix certed through PADI, you have to take tech deep which involves dives on air in the 120-165' range. Does any agency let you get trimix certified before doing deco diving with stages etc.? Does someone offer a trimix cert equivelent to the 4 hour nitrox class? If so, I'm not going to take it.

 

[LiteHedded]

Again... we don't know the planned dive. Maybe they were only supposed to go to 130' and something happened. What do you consider a safe depth for diving on air?

The shop at the lake provides trimix, however before you can get trimix certed through PADI, you have to take tech deep which involves dives on air in the 120-165' range. Does any agency let you get trimix certified before doing deco diving with stages etc.? Does someone offer a trimix cert equivelent to the 4 hour nitrox class? If so, I'm not going to take it.

you can do deco diving with stages without going to unsafe depths

 

[plot]

you can do deco diving with stages without going to unsafe depths

What's your definition of a safe depth?

The point here is, we don't know why the guy was at 179'. I'm not sure why everyone is assuming he meant to be there.

 

[LiteHedded]

What's your definition of a safe depth?

The point here is, we don't know why the guy was at 179'. I'm not sure why everyone is assuming he meant to be there.

for me it depends. for the diving I typically do, i keep my ENDs shallower than 100'

 

[PfcAJ]

I got a trimix cert without having to mess with deep air. I know GUE offers it, and I think UTD does, as well is IANTD, probably others.

Honestly, I feel that air is a shoddy diving gas. Its dense, narcotic, and has poor deco properties. High (greater than 110-120ft) ENDs are common with virtually every death/ accident that results from diving greater than about 110-120. Rarely will you find one that didn't have a high END associated with it. That alone speaks volumes.

 

[plot]

Ok, what mix can you come up for a 120ft END, and how deep will that take you? 250' maybe?

There's a lot of people on this board who probably dive mixes to depths pushing them well past an END of 120... although admittedly, probably not very many going to an END of 180'.

I guess they're all out to kill themselves.

 

[PfcAJ]

Easy man, all the following have about a 100ft (or less) END and a ppo2 of 1.3 or less
at the max depth listed:

Depth o2%/he%

90-110 30/30
111-150 21/35
151-200 18/45
201-250 15/55
250-300 12/75

 

[plot]

12/75? :buggy: sounds cold.

are these common mixes?