Mr Chattertons Self Reliance Article...

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Now, however, the general issue is also about whether one's parents were fundamentally moral or immoral people and whether they raised you properly or not.

You're right: you don't want to be in the same water as me.

Kind of surprised you are inventing new interpretations of my post.....I was not making the moral judgement. The moral issue is for each person here to decide, based on how they were raised, and how their own moral compass works.
The people that believe John is right, could very well have a complex and moral system of ethics, as could John's family. It just would not be the same system of ethics I believe in.
 
...//... "Let me be clear, if you have nothing to breathe, or nothing you feel like breathing at the time, and you jump me for my regulator, I will fight you for it, and I will win. Period."...//...

I'll admit that I'm not completely certain about his intent either.

It may have been intended to be read and interpreted at face value, it could be an overstatement for effect, or (as I'm guessing) it was served up cold to give the reader pause to actually hear the message that if one can't attend to one's own needs then nobody can count on you to be an asset.

Long story short, running out of breathable gas means you burned through both all of yours and all of the team reserve that you were carrying and then came mugging for more... Totally unacceptable.
 
I'll admit that I'm not completely certain about his intent either.

It may have been intended to be read and interpreted at face value, it could be an overstatement for effect, or (as I'm guessing) it was served up cold to give the reader pause to actually hear the message that if one can't attend to one's own needs then nobody can count on you to be an asset.

Long story short, running out of breathable gas means you burned through both all of yours and all of the team reserve that you were carrying and then came mugging for more... Totally unacceptable.

assuming the team is willing to share their reserve with you, right?
 
And as a clarification, by "team reserve" I mean the gas that I always reserve (even when solo diving) for the "uninvited guest". I see it as self-preservation, nothing more altruistic than that.

---------- Post added March 21st, 2013 at 06:38 PM ----------

Posts clashed. But you got your answer anyway. Anticipate disaster.
 
Chatterton:
Let me be clear, if you have nothing to breathe, or nothing you feel like breathing at the time, and you jump me for my regulator, I will fight you for it, and I will win. Period.

There is only one person who can answer the meaning of the above statement. Howard, what does this mean?
 
I have followed this thread from the beginning but hesitated to post. My disclaimer is that I am mainly a recreational diver operating on the fringe of technical, some deeper depths, short deco, 2 gases. I am also a simpleton and reduce things to the basics as well as seeing most topics in black and white, right and wrong. If I have a buddy, I have an explicit responsibility to assist that person in case of trouble, including OOA. Of course, I do expect my buddy to dive in a responsible manner and not place us at unreasonalble or unexpected risk. With my family, that works extremely well, with an instabuddy, that works variably. If one is diving solo, one does not expect to be responsible for others. Of course, one may encounter a diver in distess and one would naturally attempt to assist in any way, within reason.

There comes the differences and the difficult choices. With my family, I would risk my own life to save my wife, son, or daughter. With another buddy, I would always do my very best but would likely be the most likely to survive, same with an unanticipated encounter. What if I were the one in need of assistance, though with the exception of equipement failure that would not happen, I would expect the same of the diver I was with, planned or unplanned.

Obviously, preparation and avoidance of these types of situations is the best medicine. I've never been OOA and have never encountered an OOA diver in 700 dives. I suppose it is only a matter of time until my experience changes. I hope that I am up to the challenge to optimize the outcome for all involved.

Good diving, Craig
 
...//... I hope that I am up to the challenge to optimize the outcome for all involved. ...//...

American Red Cross. FA, CPR, AED. Take Wilderness and Remote FA and the CPR / AED course for health-care providers. You get the fundamental responsibilities too. You are not obligated to lose your life or health to help another.
 
I have followed this thread from the beginning but hesitated to post.

Every thread has it's event horizon. We all get sucked in sooner or later.:wink:


Cheers,
Mitch
 

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