My dive incident

[TeddyDiver]

Generally speaking DM should know how many divers he has and have a count atleast those who said to be following him. What I'm conserned, if a DM is not even aware if someone missing. In this particular incident, was he? Did he say anything after the dive like "saw you going up, was there something wrong?"

 

[johnl45]

Glad your OK, please read this.
Responsible Diver Code

 

[Rick Murchison]

Alright gang, let's try another way to get to what the diver should expect from a DM...
What should the DM be able to expect from the DIVER?
Should the DM be able to reliably assume any skills from a diver?
Does the diver have any responsibility to take care of his own rear end?
Does the diver have any responsibility to make any decisions?
Or does the diver's responsibility end when he pays for the dive?
When a diver remains on the surface after the DM takes a group down, should the DM abandon the group to "see what's wrong" or should he expect the diver on the surface to have enough sense to stay there?
Remember, we're talking about certified divers on a guided tour here, not an instructor with a class.
Rick

 

[aozger]

Generally speaking DM should know how many divers he has and have a count atleast those who said to be following him. What I'm conserned, if a DM is not even aware if someone missing. In this particular incident, was he? Did he say anything after the dive like "saw you going up, was there something wrong?"

No, as I said people were going up separately, even the ones that were with him had separated by quite a bit.

Thank you all for the comments by the way. Even though most are repeating my stupidity - which I had mentioned is the case here - I have gained a lot of valuable knowledge like DMs and dive operators working differently and the differences in dives this can bring. I do not have any diver friends, that is why I relied on the dive operators and told them I was new.

I do not think there was anything wrong with my training as some mentioned. In fact, I had a great OW instructor. It was not being able to put this training to good use, in this case due to inexperience. I was also not uncomfortable underwater in any way at any time.

The only thing I was not comfortable with was going to that depth with Nitrox, which I should be due to my training. (btw everyone else was on it too unless they had air in the Nitrox tanks)

Something even more stupid, is that I also knew I would be more buoyant with the 7mm before the dive. I again could not manage to put 2 and 2 together to add more weight before I needed it.

 

[mnaalb]

Where do you live? I would probably be 4 to 5 hours from west palm (to the north). In the Gainesville area. I would dive with you. I have been diving over a year and a half. Have about 40 dives. AOW but no nitrox yet. I also live near quite a few springs which may be ideal to get some dives under your belt. The only issue I have is my weird work schedule. I dive sometimes with a guy from church and sometimes with a guy I met through the dive shop I certified through. My son also recently got his certification but his temporary has expired and I am trying to patiently deal with his instructor to get him to see why he has not gotten his perminant c-card. Let me know if you want to dive sometime. I am very conservative in my diving and dive planning as I am still honing my skills to some degree, plus diving with your kid adds a little extra concern as well.

Wasn't sure if you saw my earlier post.

 

[Web Monkey]

Alright gang, let's try another way to get to what the diver should expect from a DM...
What should the DM be able to expect from the DIVER?
Should the DM be able to reliably assume any skills from a diver?
Does the diver have any responsibility to take care of his own rear end?
Does the diver have any responsibility to make any decisions?
Or does the diver's responsibility end when he pays for the dive?
When a diver remains on the surface after the DM takes a group down, should the DM abandon the group to "see what's wrong" or should he expect the diver on the surface to have enough sense to stay there?
Remember, we're talking about certified divers on a guided tour here, not an instructor with a class.

Unfortunately, it's a complete crap-shoot from both ends.

If the DM was really on the ball, he probably should have noticed that 16Lbs wasn't going to sink a new diver in a 7mm suit, and that a 90' mob dive probably wasn't appropriate for "5 or more logged dives", however there's really no requirement that the DM have any particular skill-level, provide any specific level of "safety" or even be a DM when not involved in a class.

Ideally, the OP should have known to abandon the dive immediately, however classes have been so badly fragmented that most of the information needed to make a decision like this has been pushed off into Stress & Rescue. Current OW classes really only cover what's required to dive and probably not get killed, but lack any serious foundation for making decisions in new situations.

I don't really see a solution here. The chances of raising OW standards are about the same as having Elvis and Sasquatch stop by for dinner, and the chances of having a better-defined role for DMs on group dives is about the same.

About the best hope for cutting down on the number of incidents is if SB gets more popular and people read about this stuff before it happens to them.

Terry

 

[TeddyDiver]

Rick.. I'd like to see the issue more like "redundancy" of responsibility. Not at all meaning anything against all said about a divers responsibility of himself, which is quite right and what we expect certified divers to be. However, DM has some responsibility of divers he's leading. Like someone said before, DM isn't just a tourist guide.
Aozger had a lesson, and never again forgets to check he's boyancy, but (resuming the story was about right) the DM still leaves diver's behind (maybe with some more serious problems what ever reason) without further thoughts
DM should accept appropriate, limited responsibility for certified divers within the context of leading or managing diving activities.

 

[DCBC]

Divers that shoot to the surface at warp speed in unexpected locations make it impossible for the capt to ensure their safety.

Yes. My point was as a Captain of a vessel, the onus is on you to take reasonable precautions to insure the safety of everyone. This includes a briefing regarding the operational procedures of the vessel and what is expected of those in the water. This wasn't done...

 

[DCBC]

Alright gang, let's try another way to get to what the diver should expect from a DM...
What should the DM be able to expect from the DIVER?
Should the DM be able to reliably assume any skills from a diver?
Does the diver have any responsibility to take care of his own rear end?
Does the diver have any responsibility to make any decisions?
Or does the diver's responsibility end when he pays for the dive?
When a diver remains on the surface after the DM takes a group down, should the DM abandon the group to "see what's wrong" or should he expect the diver on the surface to have enough sense to stay there?
Remember, we're talking about certified divers on a guided tour here, not an instructor with a class.
Rick

Rick, we can certainly discuss a diver's responsibility to dive safely to his/her level of training. Certainly this should be expected. I don't know about you, but I do not take a C-card as my only yardstick to assess my level of confidence in someone's ability. Far from it.

Should a DM:

a) Assess if a diver possesses the requisite qualifications and experience to perform the planned dive?

b) First insure that divers are qualified for Nitrox before giving it to them?

c) Assign buddy teams?

d) Provide a safety briefing?

e) Check equipment before entering the water?

f) Record tank pressures and in/out times?

g) Take reasonable measures to insure diver safety?

I'm afraid too many DMs feel that they have no responsibility for anything other than to act as a tour guide. This is a mistake.

Should a DM go to a diver struggling on the surface without a buddy? Absolutely! Even if he only escorts him back to the boat. Does this cause inconvenience to the other divers? Sure; so what? A few minutes shouldn't make much difference. When other divers realize that this is how Clients are treated, they can't help but appreciate that if it was them, it's what they would want.

I remember the day when I could dive with my buddy without anyone holding my hand. It was when I was 12 years old and first certified... What is happening to diver training when a DM is required to supplement for basic ability and knowledge? It seems that something is being missed here.

 

[openmindOW]

Training standards have been lowered to a point where more new divers require personal attention and DM diver ratios are either non-existent or not enforced.

Amen.