My Journey into UTD Ratio Deco

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it's just that slow tissue on-gassing would probably have a lessor impact relatively compared to inflammation levels. With inflammation levels (CCL5) to a large extent genetically dispositioned, that would make reason behind hypothesizing that there may be "deep stoppers" and "shallow stoppers", as it relates to possibly explaining the GI3/AG-avenue touched on prior.

If I'm understanding you correctly, all the Spisni divers who did the RD profile, and had markedly inflammatory biological responses, were ALL "shallow stoppers" who got stuck doing a deep stop profile, and so they reacted negatively to this profile because they were genetically predisposed to need shallow stops, but only dived the deep stops?
 
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If I'm understanding you correctly, all the Spisni divers who did the RD profile, and had markedly inflammatory biological responses, were ALL "shallow stoppers" who got stuck doing a deep stop profile, and so they reacted negatively to this profile because they were genetically predisposed to need shallow stops, but only dived the deep stops?

Did all the divers have a "similar" response, or was there a notable spread in responses?

Regardless, that's not exactly what I'm getting at - rather, I'm looking at comparing NEDU findings to Spisni findings and hypothesizing that there's got to be some mutual level of relevance across slow tissue on-gassing and BIPA;
That in NEDU, that level may be scewered because of the aggregating circumstances, and that may mean that inflammation levels (BIPA) means relatively more than we might think, compared to slow tissue on-gassing.

In and by itself, I don't think that's a radical hypothesis at all.

The implication of it would be that "deep stoppers" (people with comparatively lessor CCL5-response) might actually stop deeper compared to others and gain a benefit from doing so. If so, obviously other people, "shallow stoppers" wouldn't be able to because of platelet aggregation.

I think it's just a matter of zeroing in on the implication of that train of thought:

Not whether or what the relevance of NEDU and Spisni might be - but rather if it'd be possible to approximate an individual's more "optimal" decompression approach, based on that person's blood sample.
 
I don't think that's a radical hypothesis at all.
What are your qualifications in hyperbaric medicine?

The reason I'm asking is that I like to know if the person formulating a hypothesis does so based on proper science, or if they're just pulling the hypothesis out of their behind. If a qualified hyperbaric medicine scientist says that something is a reasonable hypothesis, I might well trust them. If an unqualified person does the same, I'll remember the saying about caveat emptor.
 
Slow tissue supersaturation with insufficient decompression leads to bubble showers in the bloodstream, most significantly at the surface an hour or two after a dive and continuing on for several hours, causing an inflammatory and immunological response to the foreign bodies (i.e., the bubbles), exacerbated by a deep stop profile due to increased slow tissue on-gassing.

That said, I have no medical qualifications, but I've watched a lot of ER and Grey's Anatomy :).
 
What are your qualifications in hyperbaric medicine?

The reason I'm asking is that I like to know if the person formulating a hypothesis does so based on proper science, or if they're just pulling the hypothesis out of their behind. If a qualified hyperbaric medicine scientist says that something is a reasonable hypothesis, I might well trust them. If an unqualified person does the same, I'll remember the saying about caveat emptor.

To answer your question, I don't have a degree in hyperbaric medicine - but, on the other hand, I don't think what I'm saying is in conflict with anything being presented by those that do?

As a matter of fact, I'm looking at the science we're most often discussing (Nedu, Spisni), and think it could be an interesting bynote to the question.

I'm not saying that some divers need GF0/0 and others GF100/100 - if the "optimal" balance is, say, 50/50, bene - and if there is a difference it may be as little of a difference as +/- 1 point. Or less. Or more. Or nothing at all.

Do you feel it's a radical idea that one diver might reach "optimal" results from stopping first at one given depth, and another diver at another depth (based on their CCL5-response)?

In either case, it's only a sidenote (and hypothetical), and doesn't really impact the main course of the conversation. I simply thought it'd be an interesting idea to play with as a question was raised if there's any possibility that GI3/AG might have physiological attributes that mean they'd actually feel better from stopping (somewhat) deeper, compared to another tentative sample population;

I want to be 100% clear here, that I don't hold that to take anything away from the NEDU-study, the Spisni-study or any other study, nor reduce their relevance.
Quite the opposite, in fact.

In either case, while it's a layman's appraisal that the idea isn't radical, it seems to be shared by experts in the field (pardon the lack of proper referencing below, but it's from the Spisni-study report);

"Increased circulating chemokines and higher bubble grades may be two phenomena that are physiologically disconnected. That is, bubble development and the increased inflammation likely induced by vascular modifications might be independent phenomena, both able to enhance divers' susceptibility to develop DCS. However, endothelial physiology which also depends on individual genetics, is certainly linked to the inflammatory response trigger elicited by circulating bubbles. Further studies will be necessary to correlate circulating chemokines with the differences in accepted measures of decompression stress such as the increase of DCS, VGE evolution or different dive profiles with unequivocal differences in decompression stress."

Again, I don't think what I'm saying means anything to the value of neither NEDU or Spisni, and I don't mean for this to come off as a counterargument in the debate - more of a bynote, rather.
 
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Slow tissue supersaturation with insufficient decompression leads to bubble showers in the bloodstream, most significantly at the surface an hour or two after a dive and continuing on for several hours, causing an inflammatory and immunological response to the foreign bodies (i.e., the bubbles), exacerbated by a deep stop profile due to increased slow tissue on-gassing.

That said, I have no medical qualifications, but I've watched a lot of ER and Grey's Anatomy :).

Absolutely, I hear you
(with severe reservations to my understanding of how supersaturation and inflammation interact precisely, as described above, in post #265)

What I'd add in hypothesis is solely that BIPA might have a big(ger?) role in that process, too.
That is, bubbles are formed, but further aggregated by immunological response - in some divers to a greater extent than others (depending on genetics).

My thought is only that if I'm cold and decompressing on air, slow tissue on-gassing may have a greater relative significance compared to inflammation response (and thus, genetics), than it would if I were accelerating my decompression and warm.

You know what I mean?
 
You can find all the same stuff, by the same guy, repeated endlessly on this thread and others on SB.

What 's the name of this guy and SB nickname please ?
 
Found this article :
Ratio Deco FAQ

That was well quick!
I only put up the page within 48 hours ago :)

I've been brewing on that FAQ for a bit, and have worked with UTD HQ to have it approved as official UTD policy, as I figured it'd be a good way to get info one might want about Ratio Deco.

It also touches on some of the questions posted here, including altitude, accuracy of base ratios, and mental taskloading.
 
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