My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[NorCalDM]

You're of course right and I get that, but at the same time I was trying to tell them I'd be buying brand new regulators from a reputable company, even if it is a smaller and newer company. I personally like boutique brands, but I know a shop can't know about every single small company out there. Still, for the money AND the commitment of a long-term education relationship, I was hoping they'd be willing to work with me on this.

Anyway, I'll do the try SCUBA and get to meet the main instructor, I'll then try to meet the instructor from the PADI shop and I'll see which one I click with more. I do appreciate all of y'all's feedback.

What you just told them is that you are not going to buy gear from them. It is not insurance or liability issues it's a business issue. Shops don't make money on classes they make money on product sales so some put shop policies in place like this to push you towards buying or renting from them. Agency doesn't really matter for OW as they are all teaching the same skills so go with who you fit best with. Also try different types of gear it will just make you a more well rounded diver. Decent divers can dive any BC and make it work just fine.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Shops don't make money on classes they make money on product sales so some put shop policies in place like this to push you towards buying or renting from them.

The 90s would like their business plan back. Dive shops should make all services it provides, including training, profitable. The race to the bottom with cheap classes is not smart.

i get it man....but:

1) students lie...about everything.

it really wouldnt be far fetched to have a student claim to you they are buying brand new...but then go on ebay and buy some 20 year old relic.

A bill of sale should address that.

or the student couldve been sold something they thought was new...when in reality the seller duped them...

You're really reaching here to justify the shop policy.

2) just because its new manufacture doesnt mean its working properly, or even properly made.

theres nothing stopping some bubba with no knowledge of scuba from slapping together some plumbing parts in his basement, calling himself "super pro regulator company"...and selling his cobbled together regs online...

Can you cite one example of this happening?

so even if you are buying new....it doesnt mean the company is legit...

What not legit regs are on the market?

or someone couldve bought a brand new Aqualung reg....gotten it home, taken it apart, and put it back together incorrectly.

Oh come on. This is argumentum ad absurdum. Do instructors take all the gear for their students for them to the pool/open water? Students could take apart and put back together incorrectly their regs too.

essentially, its a lot of risk, with really very little reward for the instructor.....and by having a "zero tolerance" policy, it removes the burden of judgement off the instructor, who, at the end of the day, is liable if you get hurt.

Lawyers will go after who is actually liable. That would be the manufacturer if they sold a defective product or the shop who did the servicing.

it also could be 100% out of the instructors hands....it could very well be a stipulation from his liability insurance carrier to not let students use their own get during OW cert.

So every single scuba class taught out there the instructors have to provide gear? What makes open water so special? I've never heard of such a policy either.

Let's not make stuff up but use real world examples.

 

[rhwestfall]

The 90s would like their business plan back.

"We will lose a little bit on each, but make up for it in volume"....

 

[rx7diver]

I am sympathetic to the shop requiring Open Water students to use gear they supplied.

These shops encounter a bunch of people that are new to scuba and don't know what they don't know. They might bring along Dad's 20 year old scuba gear ...

Ha! I know exactly what you mean! Attached pic is of my daughter (university junior) last month in Roatan. She completed her Univ scuba course last term using the university's gear, but did her open water checkout in Bull Shoals Lake AR and immediately went to Honduras, both, in my and her mom's old gear: my Scubapro Mk 10 + Balanced Adjustable reg + gauges (~1987), my Scubapro Stab Jacket BCD + AIR 2 (~1994), and her mom's Scubapro Jet Fins (~1985). Her Scubapro mask is brand new, though.

rx7diver

 

[Belzelbub]

So on that note, there are two shops in my area, one a PADI shop, and one SSI. I checked out both and signed up for a "try SCUBA" class with the SSI shop. However, the SSI shop then told me that for the Open Water class I have to use their equipment, either rented or bought from them. Their reason was "liability and insurance", though they did say that beyond the Open Water class I can use my own equipment. The PADI shop does not have a rule like that.

That reason sounds mainly like BS, but I have heard that before, so without reviewing their insurance documents, I can’t say for certain that it’s completely BS. When my daughters were certified, I asked the owner about using their own gear. He indicated that he had no problem, but would normally ask students to bring it in to let them check it out (no charge) before using it. He just wanted to make sure that the gear wasn’t from a family member that used to dive 20 years ago and hung in the garage all that time.

Use the shop and instructor that you like best. If you need to use their gear for the class, that would be fine.

 

[KitHuff]

Is this a private 1-on-1 class or a class with many students? Will they be willing to teach the class using your equipment if it is a private class? Can you order the equipment you want through them? Have you asked them if there is anything that can be done so you can train from the start with your equipment? Is there a downside to doing the initial training with their equipment, then purchasing your own equipment and doing the next step in training using the new? I would think that having knowledge of more than 1 type of equipment would be a good thing. Buy once, cry once does not mean buy it before you have any training.

 

[NorCalDM]

The 90s would like their business plan back. Dive shops should make all services it provides, including training, profitable. The race to the bottom with cheap classes is not smart.

Didn't say it was smart but it's the truth and our need it now society won't stay around for the 3-4 week classes of the 80-90's either.

 

[KitHuff]

That reason sounds mainly like BS, but I have heard that before, so without reviewing their insurance documents, I can’t say for certain that it’s completely BS. When my daughters were certified, I asked the owner about using their own gear. He indicated that he had no problem, but would normally ask students to bring it in to let them check it out (no charge) before using it. He just wanted to make sure that the gear wasn’t from a family member that used to dive 20 years ago and hung in the garage all that time.

Use the shop and instructor that you like best. If you need to use their gear for the class, that would be fine.

I am curious if you already had a relationship with the shop before your daughters were certified through them? If you knew them, did they allow their own gear because they trusted you to be sure it was up to standards? Was their own gear a lot different from what the DS is using in class?

 

[M-Cameron]

The 90s would like their business plan back. Dive shops should make all services it provides, including training, profitable. The race to the bottom with cheap classes is not smart.


A bill of sale should address that.

You're really reaching here to justify the shop policy.

Can you cite one example of this happening?

What not legit regs are on the market?

Oh come on. This is argumentum ad absurdum. Do instructors take all the gear for their students for them to the pool/open water? Students could take apart and put back together incorrectly their regs too.

like i said, its a risk, that admittedly might be small, but it is also completely unavoidable....so why take it?

if there was even a 0.1% chance of any of that happening....and you could avoid it....why wouldnt you?

Lawyers will go after who is actually liable. That would be the manufacturer if they sold a defective product or the shop who did the servicing.

....i take it youve never actually met a lawyer....not the most honest bunch....they dont sue who is liable...they sue who they think they can get money out of....guilty or not

So every single scuba class taught out there the instructors have to provide gear? What makes open water so special? I've never heard of such a policy either.

what makes open water so special?.....you are dealing with non-trained people who are your liability should something go wrong

also, i never said it applies to ALL instructors......but apparently you are familiar with all stipulations from every insurance carrier?

and why "make stuff up"?.....because that is exactly how you do a risk assessment....you think of all of the possible risks...weight them against any possible benefits, and then take measures to reduce those risks.

its literally liability 101

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Didn't say it was smart but it's the truth and our need it now society won't stay around for the 3-4 week classes of the 80-90's either.

Your argument is a false dilemma. Charging a reasonable amount for a course for it to be profitable doesn't translate to 3-4 week classes. The concept of cheap classes as a loss leader to get people hooked just makes shops dependent on sales. But there's this thing that shops don't seem to know exists. It's called "the internet" and people sell things through there, including dive gear.