NDL

[JeffAustin]

Overstepping your training is a mistake!! fortunately it wasn't a big, bad, nasty mistake in this case.

 

[MikeS]

biscuit7 once bubbled...
Your bad decisions started the day you decided to work up a contingeny plan "in case" you broke your NDL. Planning to accidently exceed it and then exceeding it does not constitute a mistake. It constitutes forethought and a plan to violate your training.

For what it’s worth, I don’t buy this. I like having a contingency plan for anything I can possibly imagine going wrong. The Suunto website has a great simulation on how the computer response when going into deco mode.

Do you think that SeaJay planned to accidentally incur a deco obligation? What do you base this on? And if he did, why would he tell us all about it? “Look for the simplest explanation, it’s probably true.” He inadvertently got into a situation, he responded without panic, and is here to tell us about it. Why do you feel like there should be some sinister motive?

Mike

 

[wreckchick]

This thread is from 2 weeks ago.

R

 

[Uncle Pug]

It is very interesting to see what different folks thought this thread was about.

And no Seajay... this thread isn't about you... though you have probably succeeded in making at least one page about you.

And no this wasn't a troll on my part... I left because I have been out scuba diving. (94'max~40min; 1:30 SI; 66'max~50min; EAN32)

And no this wasn't about forcing tech diving on the unwashed masses.

This thread was what you made it.

I know that there are folks who are paying attention having had their interest piqued and perhaps they will follow on to gain more understanding about what the NDL is and isn't... and how to properly use it.

 

[Nanook]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
It is very interesting to see what different folks thought this thread was about.

This thread was what you made it... and perhaps Mike F. was right: threads about diving don't belong on this forum.

However I know that there are folks who are paying attention having had their interest piqued and perhaps they will follow on to gain more understanding about what the NDL is and isn't... and how to properly use it.

A lot of people probably would really like to open their minds and learn.

Some people won't.

Some good info in the first 2/3rds of this thread.

 

[jonnythan]

biscuit7 once bubbled...
I said I wasn't going to post to this thread anymore either. I'm tired of being flogged by Mike Ferrara. But here I am anyway.

What I have to say is very simple: SeaJay, you did not make a mistake, you overstepped your training. Why was this not a mistake? Because you knew it could happen and when you had acquired enough information to believe it wouldn't kill you you went ahead and did it. You looked at your plan, you looked at your computer and you made a conscious choice to violate both. Why? My guess is because you thought in your head that you had enough information to live through the experience, and you did.

In the other thread you mentioned that the dissection of this dive and the flaming you took was denial of the other posters that it could happen to them. Anything can happen to anyone of us on any dive. That's a reality. Making good decisions all the way from our houses to the site into the water all the way through the dive back to the surface and back home again is what gives any one of us a more than substantial chance of diving again another day.

Your bad decisions started the day you decided to work up a contingeny plan "in case" you broke your NDL. Planning to accidently exceed it and then exceeding it does not constitute a mistake. It constitutes forethought and a plan to violate your training.

You could have done any number of things to keep within your limits. You could have decided that one dive that day was enough. You could have stayed on the surface for another hour. You could have understood your equipment better. You could have dove your plan. You did none of that and insist on calling it mistake. I respectfully disagree.

R

I'm not sure if you're implying what I think you're implying, but... when I combine what I believe I've learned about SeaJay through his other posts, the thread he started about deco procedures, this incurred deco obligation, and his ongoing participation in this thread...

Well, I'll avoid having people try to understand what i'm insinuating. I'm starting to think SeaJay is... I don't know. A fantastic troll? Clinically insane? Just plain stupid?

I'm really not sure, but I don't believe this venture into decompression was a "mistake."

 

[SeaJay]

You guys all rock.

What a great thread. Much better and much more productive.

Lol... No, I'm not insane or stupid, and I swear this wasn't a troll. If you look back at some of the great stuff that's been shared here, I think you'll see that it's all been productive.

Sure, the last thread really blew, but hey... Ya can't win them all.

Pug: Man, I don't know what I did to tick you off, but I wish you'd forgive me for it and get over it. I really like you, man, and I think you've got a lot of knowlege in there. What can I do to make you happy with me again?

Thanks, y'all, for the pointers. Sincerely.

More than anything else right now... More than DIR, more than Nitrox, more than Divemaster... I want to learn deco. I want to know how to handle that situation better. Not so that I can do deco dives... But because I want to dive that 100' wreck safely. Heck, I might even want to penetrate at some point.

I'll weigh the options and crunch my V-planner and learn. What else can I do but that and practice?

 

[jonnythan]

SeaJay once bubbled...
More than anything else right now... More than DIR, more than Nitrox, more than Divemaster... I want to learn deco. I want to know how to handle that situation better.

I'll weigh the options and crunch my V-planner and learn. What else can I do but that and practice?

Maybe you could read deco theory books and get some deco training?

 

[SeaJay]

Stupid question: I've seen lots of stuff, in terms of training and books, recommended.

But what's the course du jour? What's the book du jour?

Does someone offer a deco course that I can take now, or do I have to go through nitrox one and two before I get any information? Do I have to wait six months for the next $400 DIR course and then take Tech I and II before getting some understanding of deco? Does someone offer something that I can begin working on NOW?

A deco book... The last thing I want is the wrong information, and yet everyone seems so hell-bent on a certain theory, all others be damned. C'mon... What's "the good stuff?" The last thing I want to do is learn deco... And have it be old, outdated, or incorrect information.

I've considered Hal Watts' Deep Air course, but it seems like GUE just shakes their head at his stuff.

But if I go by their system, I'm still years away, and several thousand dollars away from learning deco...

 

[Cave Diver]

SeaJay once bubbled...
Anyway, I've been really chastized for "diving beyond my training." PADI said many dives ago that I was ready for a dive to 100'... And yet y'all have totally chewed me for overdiving my training.

...So my question for y'all is this... When, exactly, do you think I would have been prepared for this dive? Divemaster? Tech III? Trimix?

SeaJay, that's a tough question. My advice would be towards taking a nitrox, then technical nitrox class. However, you have indicated that nitrox is not readily available, thus I also assume it is not widely taught in your are.

The big deal about your previous post is centered more around the fact that you "experimented" without really knowing what the outcome was going to be.

The result was you ended up staying a little longer than you originally planned and ran close on your gas supply. But not knowing how to properly plan for this dive you could easily have racked up more of a decompression obligation than you had gas to cover.

If it's not possible to get that type of training in your area, then there are only two other courses of action that I would recommend.

First, consider going somewhere else that offers the training. A couple of long weekends, a weeks vacation, whatever you can arrange.

Second, try to find a mentor to buddy up with. Someone that is willing to help you gradually build on your experience and enhance your skills. Just remember that you should never blindly trust someone.

Finally, remember that there is a difference between over diving your training when you have no idea what the outcome may be, and overdiving your training when you are fully aware of the dangers.