Need Help with Artifact Identification

[Drewski]

Hi All:

Attached below are pictures of what I think are brass or bronze "pins" or "fastners" taken from a wooden wreck of unknown age from the Hampton Roads/Chesapeake Bay region. To the best of my knowledge, the wreck site has NOT been identified by the Federal or state governments, does not appear on any nautical chart or the NOAA hang/obstruction database and is of uncertain historical significance. Only these items were removed from the site. They were laying on the wood of the hull, next to holes that appeared to originally hold them.

I am posting these pictures on this board in an effort to "date" the artifacts. My plan is to research and identify the wreck over the winter. The wreck lies in a VERY high marine traffic area is beach accessible and, unfortunately, is VERY contaminated. What I mean by "contaminated" is that what's left of another wreck, probably a 1960s era commercial fishing vessel, literally sits right on top of it. What may have happened is that the fishing boat hooked a trawl or cable on the older wreck, "pulled" it's own transom and quickly sank. If I'm "reading" the site correctly, the keel of the older vessel is substantial with more than 5 FT of vertical relief. Visibility at this location is low (averages < 5 FT), but I've seen 15 FT when the tide is right.

Any information and/or thoughts on these items would be appreciated and respected. References to other persons for identification purposes would also be helpful. I have a few more of these similar in size and shape. I can also post more pictures if requested. Please PM me if needed.

THANKS!

 

[wreckvalle]

You are correct. These artifacts appear to be bronze or brass rods. Some with the brass washer still in place. These are common on wood sailing and steam vessels and usually date the wrecks construction to the late 1800's. Unfortunetely, you will need to uncover something else if you hope to identify the vessel.

Check out http://www.shipwreckexpo.com/shipwreckdivingidentification.htm for info on shipwreck identification

or http://www.shipwreckexpo.com/shipwreckdivingresearch.htm for info on shipwreck research

Good Luck and Safe Diving

 

[H2Andy]

wow, neat

very very cool

(i think the first one is a spare part for a CD drive )

 

[Drewski]

You are correct. These artifacts appear to be bronze or brass rods. Some with the brass washer still in place. These are common on wood sailing and steam vessels and usually date the wrecks construction to the late 1800's. Unfortunetely, you will need to uncover something else if you hope to identify the vessel.

THANKS! I needed a starting point for the dating. I was worried the type of rod would mean earlier than 1850 or so, which would make it of significant interest to other parties.

BTW, am I speaking with Dan Berg?

Thanks again...

 

[JEScholz]

I have seen simular pieces to the long pins, made of steel on other wooden wrecks. I have no idea what the smaller pieces are. Have you figured them out yet?

 

[Gilldiver]

Brass and copper pins were used on some real old wrecks - say 1600-1700, but were not used much because of the cost. Iron replaced them up till the introduction of copper sheathing which started in the late 1780/90's on Brit warships and got onto merchant ships around 1810 and later. They went back to copper/brass pins because of the corrosion potential between copper sheathing and iron pins. By the late 1880's or so new hull coatings were developed for wood hulls and copper sheathing fell out of use except for some ships in the tropics.

I would place the age between 1830 and 1890 with a target of around 1850.

If you can get a metals analysis done. Pure copper will be prior to 1840. Copper was replaced by Muntz Metal (also yellow metal) starting in the late 1830's for both sheathing and pins as it was more corrsion resistant and cheeper.

Look around the wreck and see if you can find some thin sheets of copper, these would be on the exterior of the hull. As the sheathing wore/corroded faster then the pins, the sheathing will be closer to the time when the ship went down.

PeteJ

 

[Bob3]

The short pins are just busted long pins.
I'd go with the metal analysis, presuming you can find someone working in a lab that can do the work on their lunch hour.