New Diver trouble with uncontrolled forward pitching or rolling

[DevonDiver]

From my experience (also an instructor), John has probably hit the nail on the head. Inappropriate heavy-weighting, incorrect placement of weight around the waist/body and adopting an unnatural position on the knees are three common factors that cause instability in trainee divers. These factors are exasperated when instructors deliberately over-weight students to keep them 'solid' on the bottom whilst insisting on 'from-the-knees' skills practice - it's a 'cheat' that makes the instructors job supposedly easier, at the expense of student's learning proper trim, buoyancy and stability at the outset.

Over-weighting - if you are over-weighted, it is particularly hard to remain vertical. Any variance in body position from 'true' vertical will obviously begin causing a level effect and start pulling you to that side. Over-weighting has other negative effects, such as necessitating a surplus of air in the BCD - which then causes a much greater impact from air compression and expansion as relatively smaller ascents or descents take place in the water. The symptoms of which are students having to constantly add or remove air from their BCD - and the feeling that they are continually over-compensating with their buoyancy for minor depth changes. Solution - conduct repeated weight checks to learn your optimal maximum weight. Reference - Perfect Scuba Weighting article.

Weighting Placement - The location of weighting is important, especially in relation to stability. If using a weight belt, it can slide around the waist and cause you to pull in that direction. Ensure the weight belt is secure and that weights are intelligently dispersed around the belt to prevent an over-tendency in any given direction. Weight-integrated BCDs can also cause problems in this respect, as they hold weights on the front of the torso, further away from the body. Again, both of these problems are particularly significant if trying to maintain an unnatural kneeling position. Solution - Ensure weights are properly dispersed on the weight belt. Ensure the weight belt hasn't rotated around your torso. Reference - Trim and Position article.

Trim and Position - it is very unnatural for a scuba diver to be in a kneeling position. When instructors insist on a kneeling position for skills practice it is because they see it as a quick-fix for class control. However, kneeling down deprives students of developing proper trim and buoyancy at an early stage in the learning process - which has subsequent negative impacts in their long-term development. Get horizontal, into a 'fin pivot' (tips of fins in contact only with the floor) or full horizontal hover and the impact of weight misalignment will be less noticeable. Solution - ​Get horizontal, into a 'fin pivot' (tips of fins in contact only with the floor) or full horizontal hover when you are static on the bottom practicing skills. Reference - Teaching Horizontally article.

Also bear in mind that as a very novice/learning diver, being underwater is a new experience. It does take some time to adjust to the new sensations. You are also quite highly task-loaded, so may feel more stress and frustration than you expected. Rest assured that comfort and relaxation does come in time - especially as experience increases and you learn to relax, stop 'fighting' the water and make beneficial tweaks to your positioning, weighting, buoyancy etc. That said, the issues listed above can be addresses to fast-track your progress into a more comfortable situation...

A few people in the thread have made comments that include "...your instructor will", or "...your instructor should". If your instructor has you heavily weighted and performing all of your skills from a kneeling position then they probably "won't", or believe they probably "shouldn't" decrease your weighting or get your knees up off the floor. Many instructors were initially taught to over-weight and training students from kneeling - this is their instructional philosophy and they may reject other methods - despite PADI and other agencies now extolling the virtues of neutral buoyancy (off the knees) training from an early stage. Talk to your instructor about this - but do be aware that they may (in their minds) not agree with the advice being given in this thread.

 

[lowviz]

Hi I just had my first scuba lesson ...//... I didn't enjoy the experience at all. ...//...

*sigh*

...//... I was constantly fighting (and mostly losing) a fairly strong tendency to roll or pitch forward. ...//... I was told it was because I needed to relax, but it was so severe that I believe it to be something else. ...//...

OK, this is just too much for me. First and foremost, you are correct. It is something else.

I have fought the same battle. -I looked like an idiot in some really high-level classes because I refuse to 'fake it', still won't. I really need to get the variables sorted out and post some series of pics that make the problem/solution understandable.

Bottom line is that in today's "rinse and repeat" world, there just isn't time to get buoyancy and trim squared away before they start teaching you "diving". Most get by, others don't. IMHO, the 'analytical' types do worst in the beginning but prevail over time.

 

[TSandM]

The others have made a great many good observations, and I am also among those who hate seeing folks taught on their knees. I couldn't kneel in a stable position at all in my OW class.

But one of the things I see over and over again is students put into BCs that are too big for them. If that happens, the BC rides up over your shoulders at the surface, or any other time that you are upright and it has air in it, and tends to push you forward.

A properly fitted BC should be quite snug -- if you can pull the side straps all the way down, and can't get the cummerbund uncomfortably tight, the BC is probably too big. Our LDS persists in place people in overly large BCs, and if I don't catch it ahead of time, we spend way too much effort trying to help students get stable.

 

[Fizgig]

Day 2 was MUCH better! I had a ton of fun, and was able to stay in control for most of the dive. I used the same BC as day 1 with the same weight as day 1 (6 lbs.). I attribute it to being more relaxed, and having better fin control. Although, I still had the pitching at the surface with a full BC I was able to remedy it by pulling the BC down and tight to my lower back, so I'm sure the BC was just a little too big for me in the first place.

Skill practices went great with no problems and we spent the last 20 minutes or so of the dive just having fun working on neutral buoyancy (fairly easy) and swimming through hoops (fairly tough).

We didn't do any shared air exercises this dive but worked on emergency ascents where the instructor would turn our air off, let us suck it down to feel what it's like and then begin the ascent. But I learned a very good lesson today on shared air. At the end of the dive my instructor swam over to me and gave me the out of air sign. And, because we were working on no-buddy emergency ascents that's where my mind was, I didn't think about sharing air. I actually thought for a moment that he wanted to practice his own ascent and I was to turn off his air. I didn't of course, and I eventually figured it out and we did a nice shared air ascent to finish the dive. However, he was disappointed I let him "drown".

So the lesson I learned, was that the signs mean what they mean and I assure you if another diver gives me this sign, my reg will be out my mouth and into theirs.

Thanks again for all the information, I'm really looking forward to my certification dives!

 

[boulderjohn]

We didn't do any shared air exercises this dive but worked on emergency ascents where the instructor would turn our air off, let us suck it down to feel what it's like and then begin the ascent. But I learned a very good lesson today on shared air. At the end of the dive my instructor swam over to me and gave me the out of air sign. And, because we were working on no-buddy emergency ascents that's where my mind was, I didn't think about sharing air.

Interesting exercise.

I want to make sure I read this correctly, so please confirm that the instructor shut off your air, let you breathe your tank down to a no air situation, and then ascend to the surface with your air shut off. How deep was the pool in which this happened? Through what agency are you getting this instruction?

 

[Fizgig]

I wondered if that would come across that way. Sorry, I truncated the description for brevity. Air was immediately turned back on before the ascent. The pool was 14 ft.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wondered if that would come across that way. Sorry, I truncated the description for brevity. Air was immediately turned back on before the ascent. The pool was 14 ft.

Was the instructor immediately with you throughout the ascent? Was that your only experience with the emergency ascent, or was it taught in a different way as well?

 

[Fizgig]

Yes he followed us up from behind. The air off/on exercise was only done for our buoyant ascents. We did swimming ascents with full air. To ease some of your concerns, I felt safe throughout the lessons, and there were two other instructors in the water with us and we were only 4 students.

 

[boulderjohn]

What agency is this?

 

[Fizgig]

John, you'll have to forgive me but I'm not concerned with giving this agency bad/good press on these boards.

As an aside, I'm moving just outside of Fort Lupton, CO at the end of the month and will need to do my cert dives with an SSI outfit somewhere. I would love any recommendations you may have.